Subject: Re: [jats-list] Markup for linguistics (glossed text) From: Michael Boudreau <mboudreau@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 22:01:04 +0000 |
For what it's worth, our hosting platform informs me that the only way to get these images to display at a consistent size is to submit the <graphic> element as a child of <disp-formula>. They were not sympathetic to my pointing out that these are not math. -- Michael R. Boudreau Electronic Publishing Technology Manager The University of Chicago Press 1427 E. 60th Street Chicago, IL 60637 (773) 753-3298 www.journals.uchicago.edu On 11/20/13, 10:56 AM, "Michael Boudreau" <mboudreau@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >Thanks, everyone, for these comments. I should have mentioned that we're >currently using graphics, like so (highly simplified): > > <p>Some text precedes an example:</p> > <p><graphic href="example1.tiff"/></p> > <p>And the text continues.</p> > >This can be converted by our host to a readable HTML presentation. The >down-side is that the content of the graphic is not searchable by the >user's browser (though the site's search engine can build its index from >the PDF version, so all is not lost), and the graphic's visual quality is >relatively low, particularly on mobile devices. > >To answer Nikos's question, I don't have a current project that requires a >particular type of markup for such examples, but the examples in their >context just don't strike me as "tabular"--but I'm not a linguist and >would defer to the journal editors if they deemed table markup >appropriate. I think <ruby> is closer to the mark; I'd have to do >extensive testing to see if it could handle examples with multiple layers >of glossing on the base text (sometimes there are 2 or 3 or more). (I >tremble to think what it would take to train our typesetting vendors to >apply either <table> or <ruby> markup to these examples.) > >I hadn't thought of <array>, which actually might help solve a processing >problem on our vendor's side even while still using <graphic>. > > >-- >Michael R. Boudreau >Electronic Publishing Technology Manager >The University of Chicago Press >1427 E. 60th Street >Chicago, IL 60637 >(773) 753-3298 >www.journals.uchicago.edu > > > > > >On 11/20/13, 9:14 AM, "Alexander Schwarzman" <aschwarzman@xxxxxxxxx> >wrote: > >>Or, perhaps, use <array>, with either <graphic>, as Nikos suggested, >>or with <tbody> inside... >> >>--Sasha >> >>Alexander ('Sasha') Schwarzman, Content Technology Architect >>phone: +1.202.416.1979 | e-mail: aschwarzman@xxxxxxx >> >>The Optical Society (OSA) >>2010 Massachusetts Ave., NW >>Washington, DC 20036 USA >>www.osa.org >> >> >>On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Nikos Markantonatos <nikos@xxxxxxxxxx> >>wrote: >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> The question that arises of course out of the "semantically reasonable" >>> encoding of such difficult pieces of text is why you need it. Are you >>> planning to draw some logic across different types of such linguistic >>> representations? In that case, JATS alone will hardly offer you a >>>solution. >>> JATS often resorts to other known standards for the representation of >>> "tough" textual pieces, such as mathematical equations (MathML) and >>>tables >>> (XHTML, OASIS). If there was a corresponding XML encoding standard for >>> linguistic representations, one could make the case for embedding it >>>into >>> JATS. >>> >>> Otherwise, you are left to choose between the encoding options >>>suggested by >>> Debbie, or to capture it as an image (my favorite option), or even >>>attempt >>> to represent it in TeX/LaTeX or MathML. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Nikos Markantonatos >>> Atypon >>> >>> >>> On 11/19/2013 11:47 PM, Debbie Lapeyre wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Michael-- >>>> >>>> Ouch! No you are not overlooking anything obvious. The problem >>>> is that, although you ask for "semantically reasonable", you >>>> really want presentation markup. JATS does not do presentation, >>>> by design or very well. >>>> >>>> - My first thought is a table, which this certainly looks like >>>> to me. But I do see your problem. >>>> >>>> - If it has to present EXACTLY this way, another obvious >>>> (but less than perfect) choice is <preformat>. That would >>>> - force this into a monofont (sorry about that) >>>> - preserve all your alignments and whitespace >>>> - let you include the italics, bold, and stuff. >>>> >>>> - Another possibility (not in NLM 3.0, but in the brand new >>>> JATS 1.1d1) is using <ruby>, which has a base (<rb>) and a >>>> ruby text annotation (rt) traditionally displayed atop the >>>> base (rt), or inside parenthesis after the base for browsers >>>> that cannot handle Ruby. Ruby is part of HTML5, as well as >>>> part of JATS. Ruby markup is intended for textual annotation, >>>> and might fit this case very well. >>>> >>>> But I've got to tell you, I found this example incredibly hard to >>>> human parse and be sure what went with what and why were these 2 >>>> clusters parallel and that one all alone? When the top line and the >>>> bottom line both had values, I was fine, but sometimes... Whatever >>>> you decide, a few horizontal lines or just more white space between >>>> the lines and/or less between the line and its gloss, would help >>>> me to separate. >>>> >>>> --Debbie >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 19, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Michael Boudreau >>>> <mboudreau@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone tackled the problem of marking up textual illustrations >>>>>that >>>>> require multiple points of vertical alignment--the sort of thing for >>>>> which >>>>> you1d set tab stops on a typewriter or word processor? >>>>> >>>>> I1m working on a linguistics journal that has lots of glossed text >>>>> illustrations that are typeset like the items labeled (3) and (4) on >>>>>this >>>>> page image: >>>>> >>>>> http://mss.uchicago.edu:81/mrb/linguistics.png >>>>> >>>>> We1re using the NLM Journal Publishing 3.0 DTD, and I1m at a loss for >>>>>a >>>>> markup solution that seems semantically reasonable and illustrates >>>>>the >>>>> relationships between the chunks of text that the typesetting makes >>>>> obvious. I1ve considered table markup, but I don1t want to break a >>>>>single >>>>> sentence or other unit of meaning into multiple table cells across a >>>>>row. >>>>> When I consider how our online host would convert XML into HTML, I >>>>>see >>>>> only the same bad option. >>>>> >>>>> Am I overlooking something obvious? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Michael R. Boudreau >>>>> Electronic Publishing Technology Manager >>>>> The University of Chicago Press >>>>> 1427 E. 60th Street >>>>> Chicago, IL 60637 >>>>> (773) 753-3298 >>>>> www.journals.uchicago.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================================================ >>>> Deborah A Lapeyre mailto:dalapeyre@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Mulberry Technologies, Inc. http://www.mulberrytech.com >>>> 17 West Jefferson Street Phone: 301-315-9631 (USA) >>>> Suite 207 Fax: 301-315-8385 >>>> Rockville, MD 20850 >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Mulberry Technologies: Consultancy for XML, XSLT, and Schematron >>>> ================================================================
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