Subject: RE: Venting From: Guy_Murphy@xxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:08:42 +0000 |
Hi Didier. Thanks for indulging my outburst, it was indeed a bad day :) I agree that the term "hijacking" is somewhat emotive, and maybe not the best term I could have found, but not I feel wholy inappropriate. There are several parties, some of which are commercial that are interested in the transformative part of XSL but not the formatting that are only concerned with the production of transformation parsers, not a style language for XML. I would call this hijacking because this forum is concerned with a style language and specificaly XSL, not XML transformation in isolation. People have been directed to other forums because what they're addressing is an XPointer issue, and I feel the same is true of XTL. This isn't an XTL forum it's an XSL forum. Yes transformation of XML is relevant to the forum, but the killing of XSL in favour of XTL (and I do beleive that is the objective of several participants) I view as hijacking ::shrug:: I respect their right to express their opionion, just reserve the right to dislike it :) As for why I feel the "status quo" should be maintained... I beleive that transformation, and formatting are both essential to styling and as such believe that both are relevant to a style language. I think a style language without one or other is incomplete. I feel that if XSL is split into XSL-T and XSL-F that XSL-F is doomed to wither and die, as it is the most challenging certainly browser vendors to impliment. XSL-F might have a future in print I don't know enough about that market to speculate. If XSL-F dies, then as a Web designer I must resort to two style languages for a complete picture, XSL-T and CSS. This is less than ideal. I realise that other needs may differ, but I've always been up-front about the fact that I'm a Web designer and that my interests are in that area, my agenda is quite clear. If, as I beleive is the objective the transformative part of XSL is simply pulled out and developed as XTL, I beleive that primary concerns in its design will not be that of styling. If proponets of XTL are looking for a plane to hijack I feel they might be better off looking at XQL. I have only taken a very brief glance at it but within the scope of XQL is the issue of a general transformative language. I feel that the persuit of an XTL is best done as that.... XTL, not a throttled XSL. XQL is being mooted, based upon XSL pattern matching syntax, as will be several other languages no doubt. If each of these new standard sought instead to simply throttle XSL rather than persue their own agenda, XSL would be doomed. Those with interests in a general XML query language however have instead taken the course of pesuing their agenda under it's own banner, rather than acting as a cuckoo and kicking the XSL eggs they didn't like out of the nest. In short XTL should be persued under the banner of XTL not XSL minus formatting. xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 02/09/99 06:49:42 PM To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cc: (bcc: Guy Murphy/UK/MAID) Subject: RE: Venting HI Guy, <YourComment> People, wake-up, the forum is being hijacked. </YourComment> <Reply> Guy, I see that you got a bad Monday :-) People don't want to Hijack this list, they just want a better future for XSL in general and resolve some issues like: [SNIP] Take a bird view for a moment Guy. This is not Hijacking, this is active participation and expression of a certain quality. Quality of thought is not solely reserved to paid membership to W3C. And the people express that XSL should be seen in a broader perspective. So, I'll forget about the term Hijacking and just keep that you don't want the formatting part removed from the spec. Its OK Guy, that's you opinion and we have all to respect it. However, it would be useful to ear from you the reasons why you think that the status quo should be preserved. We'll learn in the process. </Reply> Have a good day. Didier PH Martin mailto:martind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.netfolder.com XSL-List info and archive: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list XSL-List info and archive: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list
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