Subject: Re: Q: XML+XSL transforms to a print-ready format From: Rick Geimer <rick.geimer@xxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:48:49 -0700 |
Paul, > For some reason you think that the tables part is a > show-stopper. I don't think it is. The time will show > us who was right. I won't even consider using XSL FO for anything other than recreational purposes until there is robust table support. In the semiconductor industry, over 70% of the material in a typical datasheet consists of complex tables (read many columns and rows, with multiple spans) that cannot be handled by a simple list mechanism. Just my two cents worth. Rick Geimer National Semiconductor rick.geimer@xxxxxxx Paul Tchistopolskii wrote: > > > Paul Tchistopolskii writes: > > > If you have good lists - you have 95% of the functionality > > > usualy requested from tables. > > > > that just doesn't conform with my observations, I am afraid. how do > > you render the traditional matrix-like > > > > a b c d > > 1 2 3 4 > > 5 6 7 8 > > > > as list? (where the numbers have decimal points, and need lining up) > > > > do other people agree that table rendering is not needed for a > > daily working system? > > I'l just repeat myself. We got about 5 testcases from the > 'outher space' from people who wanted us to render their > typical layouts. > > Some testcases has been rendered with lists instead > of tables. The clients were saticfied with the results. > > Of course, I'm not saying that good lists are equal to the tables. > > What I'm saying is that if the system has no support > for images - it is critical. It usualy stops you right at > the beginning. However, when there is no support for > tables - it is not a show-stopper ( especialy if you know > that it'l be there soon and that 'soon' is not one year > forward) > > For some reason you think that the tables part is a > show-stopper. I don't think it is. The time will show > us who was right. > > Netscape still has problems with rendering > nested tables. Do we like it or not - it's the reality. > > > > Once again. The current shape of RenderX rendering engine > > > is sufficient to start using it in the production environment. > > > > I wish you would show me, then, how to do a simple dictionary layout, > > where the running head is > > foo ... bar > > where "foo" is the first headword on the page, and "bar" is the last. > > yes, I know this is very obscure for many people, its what I call a > > production environment. Yes, this is probably an XSL FO question, not > > a RenderX question. > > Yes. There are problems with XSL FO. It may be not a > good thing. It is just the best thing I see at the moment. For a > couple of reasons. > > > > tag somebody else will come and say that because rendering > > > engine does not supports 'nice' page numbering in the situation > > > when the page has a landscape orientation - it is imcomplete? > > > > yup. until you can do what typical day-to-day formatters do in the > > real world, its incomplete. hopefully, in due course, you'll go > > *beyond* what current generation formatters do. > > What is that 'typical' day-to-day formatter? Is it > MS Word? Or may be Jade? Or... Netscape? > Isn't Netscape the most widely used day-to-day > formatter? And it still has problems with > nested tables ... > > Sure - the TeX package powered by TeX guru may be > unbeatable thing. In some environments. > UNIX server driven by UNIX guru may be > also unbeatable thing. In some environments. > 100 in-house developers, sitting at their cubicles > pressing keyboards for custom development may > be also unbeatable thing for some tasks. > In some environments. > > For example, I think in the environment > when you have million of 'free' slaves it would > be hard to sell any device that could replace > 10 slaves in their occupation ( even the device > is realy good). In some countries ( not in teh US) > it's *much* cheapre to hire a couple of persons > who will press the keyboards doing some trivial > opreations, than to bye the appropriate software. > I'm not kidding. Environment matters. > > For some reason most of end-users are running Windows > on their desktops. Even on servers. I'm not saying that > Windows is better, or more reliable OS than UNIX. > For some reasons most of the people are using > Windows for their day-to-day typical tasks. > > Well ... it appears that I should start explaning the advantages > of XML here. Kind of strange occupation - so I'l not continue > my explanation why people sometimes decide to use a > software that has a limited functionality if comparing > it to the software they are already using. > > > > Actualy, I see nothing wrong here. I was working in some > > > different companies in different countries and most of > > > them were using this or very similiar model. > > > > the "trust me, i am your friend" model, beloved of IBM in the old days? > > I don't know what is wrong with IBM. I'm not that > experienced in marketing. It's better to say that > I'm not experienced in the marketing at all. > > I think that for some ( obvious) reason most of the > small companies are trying to build a good relations > with their clients. To me it's well understandable. > > Also, it's understandable why most of the users want > to pay nothing but get the good software in return for that > nothing. For free. Almost every week I'm receiving some > email when somebody ( for some reason ) wants > me to do some job for him. For free. Maybe, it's because > I'm providing some open-source? I don't know. > > I don't think it's possible to saticfy everybody in this world. > > The only way I see is to follow the rules. If you see > were renderx is breaking some moral rule ( whatever > it may mean) - please let me know. I think that it would > be better to do in a private email first, because you may > be mistaken. Or you are never making mistakes? > > > > And I'm answering that our HTML may be 'incorrect', because > > > it does not realy matter. > > > > No. it does not matter, per se, that your HTML is invalid. > > It does not matter, per se, if the toilets are dirty when you go for > > an interview in a new place of work. Its just a simple test one can > > apply. > > What would you think about the person who is spending the > whole day cleaning toilets in the building, just because he > can not live with the feeling that some toilet is dirty? > > Of course, if it is his profession - there is nothing strange with > that person. Of course, it may be not good if we'l become a > member of W3C and still have no time to validate our HTML. > > Until that - I don't care about the hidden problems that > make no harm to anybody. More. I don't care about > supporting Netscape version 2. I even don''t care > too much about supporting Netscape version 3. > Actualy I'm so shameless, that I don't care about > supporting browsers other than Netscape 4.* and > MSIE v5.*, because I'm making products for the > majority. I'm also not optimizing every line of the code > when I'm writing the code. I'm using profiler to optimize > the code. Shame on me, maybe I'm realy too lazy. > > > > What particular problem do you have with our HTML pages ? > > none. I was just being picky, so I threw it at validator.w3.org > > The thing is that sometimes I have no time to sleep. > > Actualy, I apologize, but I have spend much more time > than I realy have for writing some letters. It means that > I'l not answer to this ( and related ) threads anymore > for about 7 days. > > Please forgive me, if something still remains unclear - > I tried to make it clear. I had to. > > Rgds.Paul. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > paul@xxxxxxxxx www.renderx.com www.pault.com > XMLTube * Perl/JavaConnector * PerlApplicationServer > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > XSL-List info and archive: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list XSL-List info and archive: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list
Current Thread |
---|
|
<- Previous | Index | Next -> |
---|---|---|
Re: Q: XML+XSL transforms to a prin, Paul Tchistopolskii | Thread | Re: Q: XML+XSL transforms to a prin, James Tauber |
RE: Question about xpath, Mike Brown | Date | Re: Practical Suggestion for XSLT P, Christopher R. Maden |
Month |