Re: [niso-sts] Where to put <long-desc>

Subject: Re: [niso-sts] Where to put <long-desc>
From: "Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 21:48:47 -0000
Hi Denise b

I think you have put your finger on an infelicity in the tag library. The
guidance is quite unclear, and I think this is because it mixes advice on how
<long-desc> should be tagged in the XML and how it should be displayed to end
users on the Web.

I agree with your implication that all of the text of an STS document (or a
JATS document, or for that matter any XML document) should be in the XML
file(s) that comprise the document - at least for interchange. It makes me
uncomfortable even contemplating putting something as important as the
accessibility information outside the document and pointing to it. That would
make intercahnge very fragile!

It seems to me that the text of the Long Description *should* be inside the
<long-desc> element in the interchange version of the XML. It seems to me that
when the document is displayed Web-style, the display tool should probably
move that text out of the flow of the HTML (or XHTML, or even XML) and link to
it. This is similar to the way display tools should generate punctuation for
display of <element-citation>s - an assumption about display NOT an
instruction about tagging the interchange version of the XML document.

Now that you have pointed out this confusion I intend to suggest a need to
clarify this documentation to the JATS committee and hope that:
 - the JATS committee agrees with me about what this should say
 - the JATS documentation is clarified
 - the rest of the JATS family (STS and BITS) will adopt the clarified
documentation.

Please keep asking questions; it is users asking questions that lead to
improved specifications. You are helping the whole community when you take the
time to articulate your question and ask it in public.

** Is JATS-Con on your calendar? I think you might find it both interesting
and informative. Read more about it at: https://jats.nlm.nih.gov/jats-con/

b Tommie


> On Feb 2, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Denise French dfrenchlibrary@xxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I *KNOW* <long-desc> is to describe visual structures inside documents. What
I don't know is *where to put the text* if it is not supposed to be inside the
<long-desc> element.
>
> The example at:
http://www.niso-sts.org/TagLibrary/niso-sts-TL-1-0-html/element/long-desc.html
shows it inside the <long-desc>, but the text on that same page says: ...
some newer systems expect this element to contain a URI that points to such a
description. Best Practice is to incorporate a textual description, including
or ending with an untagged URI, and repeat the URI in the @xlink:href
attribute so that a link can be made.
>
> And I want to know, where should that URI point, and where should the text
be that the URI points to?
>
> Does that make any sense?
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 3:53 PM, Bruce Rosenblum bruce@xxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Denise,
>
> long-desc is not used to describe the entire document.
>
> long-desc is specifically meant for figures, so it should be inside the
<fig> element, and there should be one to describe each figure in the
document. Please see the example at the bottom of
http://www.niso-sts.org/TagLibrary/niso-sts-TL-1-0-html/element/long-desc.html
>
> long-desc can also be used to describe other objects such as tables or media
objects, but it is more frequently used for figures.
>
> Bruce
>
> At 03:45 PM 2/2/2018, Denise French dfrenchlibrary@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> Thank you, but this does not help. WHERE should that long description to
which the document points BE? Is it part of the XML? That is, if the long
description is a paragraph, where in the XML is that paragraph? And if it is
not in the XML, where should it be? Are we expected to put it on a public
server in a place that we hope will never change and point to it? This seems
odd, and probably unworkable.C
>>
>> Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but it looks to me like the "Best
Practice" is to put the actual text of the long description outside the
<long-desc> tag, but I don't see any guidance on where to put it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 3:37 PM, Robert Wheeler wheelerr@xxxxxxxx <
niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Denise,
>
> C
>
> This is one of the tags (and descriptions) C"b,EinheritedC"b, from JATS.
Apologies if I am misunderstanding your question, but under the Remarks, there
is some further description:
> C"b,ELong Description Contents:C This element was originally designed
toC containC a description, but some newer systems expect this element to
contain a URI that points to such a description.C"b,
>
> C
>
> So, the element can contain this long description, but could also contain a
URI that points to that long description.
>
> C
>
> Please let me know if I am misunderstanding your question.
>
> C
>
> Thanks,
> Robert C
>
> C
>
> From: Denise French dfrenchlibrary@xxxxxxxxx [
mailto:niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 2:55 PM
> To: niso-sts-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [niso-sts] Where to put <long-desc>
>
> C
>
> Please be patient with me, I have another question:C
>
> C
>
> I read in the element description of <long-desc> that: "Best Practice is to
incorporate a textual description, including or ending with an untagged URI,
and repeat the URI in theC @xlink:hrefC attribute so that a link can be
made."
>
> C
>
> What I don't see is what it should link TO. And if, as I guess, it should
link to a textual description, where should that description be? It seems
logical that it should be part of the XML of the document, because if it is
not it won't be transmitted with the document. But ... where. And tagged how?
And if NOT part of the document, then where should it be and how will people
know to point to it?C
>
> C
>
> Thank you.
>
> C
>
>
>
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> Bruce D. Rosenblum
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