RE: Accessing a node name from within <xsl:attribute>

["Paulo Gaspar" <paulo.gaspar@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I already made a posting about this but I had not found the original 
posting yet. (Too much time without checking my e-mail!)

The complete posting of Mr. Allen raises some extra remarks.
This remarks can be summarized in a single sentence:
  Mr. Joshua Allen does NOT know what he is writing about.


Maybe Mr. Allen should have made his home work before writing this 
posting. (He would not write it then!)

The missing home work:
 - Read the book, or at least the index. It is easy to notice the 
   fat apendix on MSXML3 - March 2000 edition;
   (I think he does not write that much even about Saxon.)
 - Make sure to understand the "difference between the W3C XSLT 
   standard and Microsoft's 1998 dialect of XSL as implemented in 
   IE5";
 - Have some practical experience of reading about XSLT standard
   stuff and then trying to apply it with Microsoft's 1998 XSLT
   dialect. This would give him some grasp of how big is the gap 
   between the standard and the MS XSLT 1998 dialect;
 - Reading some random postings from Mr. Kay past postings from
   this mailling list archives; (It is a good thing to know 
   someone's habits before juging them.)
 - Getting better informed about the scope of this mailling list.


Maybe then, Mr. Allen would understand that:
 - This list is about the standard XSLT and not about the MS XSLT
   1998 dialect. A microsoft forum would be a more adequate place
   to discuss that proprietary dialect;
 - Unlike IE5 MSXML, the (under development) MSXML3 implements 
   standard XSLT (with some misses). Postings on MSXML3 are 
   current on this list;
 - Mr. Kay already gave a lot of support to MSXML3 users, both in
   this forum and in his book; (That is why your colleagues like 
   the book... or do you thing they are using Java parsers???)
 - Posting answers to this mailling list is voluntary unpaid work
   and no poster is obliged to answer a subject he does not care
   about;
 - Microsoft updates to XSLT are targeted at developers and 
   presented as an under development technology in a developers
   are (MSDN) of Microsoft's site. Up to this date they are not 
   part of any automatic IE5 update. It is even necessary to 
   perform a special operation (install in replace mode) to have 
   MSXML3 working with IE5;
 - Mr. Kay did also answer this question in an appropriate way. 
   My initial problems with XSLT were related with the huge 
   differences between the MS XSLT 1998 dialect and the standard 
   XSLT about which I was reading;
   (Yes, I am a MSXML3 user.)
 - The contributions of Mr. Kay to this community are huge and 
   it is rediculous to consider that is prestige can be 
   challenged by someone that does not know what he is talking 
   about.

Actually IF Mr. Joshua Allen is a Microsoft employee, he is 
shooting himself in the foot. He is shooting Microsoft in the 
foot anyway when he presents himself as a Microsoft employee.


I write "IF" because Mr. Allen's behaviour is much more consistent
with someone wishing to harm Microsoft's interests than with
someone wishing to defend them.


What irritates me is that Mr. Allen's is also harming the position 
of people that (like myself) have been defending a fair evaluation
of MSXML3's value and the value of MSXML3's Development Team work.

He is also, that way, harming that Development Team's work.


The only thing that Mr. Allen's is defending here is the anti 
Microsoft hype.


I see no "sustained thinking" in Mr. Allen's ignorant posting.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Joshua Allen
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 23:35
> To: 'xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: Accessing a node name from within <xsl:attribute>
> 
> 
> Mike Kay's book is a great beginner's guide and reference.
> Look for Wrox Press's "XSLT Programmer's Reference".  We
> have purchased piles of this book at Microsoft and everyone
> seems to like it.
> 
> The first thing to establish, though, is that Mike Kay
> is definitely not the person to ask XSL questions regarding
> Microsoft.  I think he has a filter set up that detects
> keywords like "IE5" or "Microsoft" and automatically
> spits out some form of "Microsoft sucks" without regard
> to the actual question asked.
> 
> He was perfectly capable of answering your question, and
> would have answered it had you pretended to be using Saxon.
> He is also perfectly aware that IE5 shipped before the
> XSLT spec was finished and thus implements an older version
> of the spec.  He is also aware that there have been many
> updates to XSLT support for IE5 available free for download
> at http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml.  With the updated parser
> you can also download the newer SDK, which includes online
> references for XSLT/XPath and code samples.
> 
> Joshua Allen
> Microsoft eBusiness West Region
> "No challenge can withstand the assault of sustained thinking" - Voltaire
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kay Michael [mailto:Michael.Kay@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 10:18 AM
> > To: 'xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: RE: Accessing a node name from within <xsl:attribute>
> > 
> > 
> > > I am new to XSL. I am looking into transforming XML into HTML 
> > > using XSL for displaying in Internet Explorer 5.
> > > Can anyone help with this question please and/or point me in 
> > > the direction of some good beginners guides to XSL?
> > > 
> > First thing is to establish that you understand the 
> > difference between the
> > W3C XSLT standard and Microsoft's 1998 dialect of XSL as 
> > implemented in IE5.
> > Most of the people on this list are primarily interested in 
> > the former. If
> > you want to (or are forced to) use the Microsoft dialect, be 
> > aware that it's
> > very different and far less powerful a language.
> > 
> > Mike Kay
> > 
> > 
> >  XSL-List info and archive:  http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list
> > 
> 
> 
>  XSL-List info and archive:  http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list
> 


 XSL-List info and archive:  http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list