Re: [xsl] Random UUID in pure XSLT?

["Michael Kay mike@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I don't know how FP purists model this, but it seems to me that the content of
a web page is a function of two things: the URL, and the time. So probably we
should be treating unparsed-text() as if there is an implicit parameter
timestamp() which is potentially different on each call; though since order of
execution is unpredictable, forcing the calls to happen at different times
still requires some sleight-of-hand.

Where are the theorists when we need them?

Michael Kay
Saxonica

> On 11 Nov 2020, at 22:03, Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev@xxxxxxxxx
<xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > According to the spec, unparsed-text() is deterministic, which means that
two calls with the same argument should return the same result. You're relying
on a Saxon non-conformance, I fear!
>
> It seems to me that tagging the function unparsed-text() as "deterministic"
was rather inaccurate... And definitely not useful, if we need hacks as
workarounds for its limitations...
>
> Generally, determinism can have meaning within a closed system, the system
of Internet Http resources is an open one.
>
> Thus, the Saxon non-conformance for me is a feature, not a bug!
>
> Cheers,
> Dimitre
>
>
> According to the spec, unparsed-text() is deterministic, which means that
two calls with the same argument should return the same result. You're relying
on a Saxon non-conformance, I fear!
>
> Except that if you make the call in a loop, Saxon will probably loop-lift
it, thus becoming conformant and making your code deliver a stream of
identical UUIDs.
>
> You can probably get round it by using
unparsed-text("https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4 <https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4>?x="
|| position())
>
> Michael Kay
> Saxonica
>
>> On 11 Nov 2020, at 18:32, Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dnovatchev@xxxxxxxxx> <xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> >  how can I go about producing random UUIDs, in dozens or hundreds, inside
an XSLT pipeline, without extension functions in Saxon.
>>
>> This is actually very easy and doesn't require the use of any extension
functions:
>>
>> unparsed-text("https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4 <https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4>")
>>
>> or if you need N of them:
>>
>> for $i in 1 to $N
>>    return  unparsed-text("https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4
<https://uuidgen.org/api/v/4>")
>>
>>
>>
>> p
>>
>> HTH, Dimitre
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 8:36 AM Piez, Wendell A. (Fed)
wendell.piez@xxxxxxxx <mailto:wendell.piez@xxxxxxxx>
<xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> XSL Friends b
>>
>>
>>
>> Today I write from the day job, where I am researching the question of how
can I go about producing random UUIDs, in dozens or hundreds, inside an XSLT
pipeline, without extension functions in Saxon. The Java randomUUID() function
works nicely when itbs available, but I need to distribute the capability
for SaxonHE and eventually SaxonJS.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do not have an available implementation of RFC 4122 v4 brandom UUIDb
in pure XSLT do we, free to use (and study)? I know the functional nature of
the language makes randomness, um, problematic (when isnbt it?), which
sometimes means workarounds b thatbs all fine. Indeed so would calling out
to a web service if it is known to be reliable. I have thought about handing a
list of UUIDs in at runtime, but as I said, there may sometimes be hundreds
and perhaps thousands, which makes that approach seem a bit scary.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts or perspective would be most welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Wendell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Dimitre Novatchev
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
>> ---------------------------------------
>> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
>> -------------------------------------
>> Never fight an inanimate object
>> -------------------------------------
>> To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
>> biggest mistake of all
>> ------------------------------------
>> Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
>> -------------------------------------
>> You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what
you're doing is work or play
>> -------------------------------------
>> To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
>> -------------------------------------
>> Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
>> -------------------------------------
>> Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write
all patents, too? :)
>> -------------------------------------
>> Sanity is madness put to good use.
>> -------------------------------------
>> I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
>>
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>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Dimitre Novatchev
> ---------------------------------------
> Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
> ---------------------------------------
> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
> -------------------------------------
> Never fight an inanimate object
> -------------------------------------
> To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
> biggest mistake of all
> ------------------------------------
> Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
> -------------------------------------
> You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what
you're doing is work or play
> -------------------------------------
> To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
> -------------------------------------
> Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
> -------------------------------------
> Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write
all patents, too? :)
> -------------------------------------
> Sanity is madness put to good use.
> -------------------------------------
> I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
>
> XSL-List info and archive <http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list>
> EasyUnsubscribe <http://lists.mulberrytech.com/unsub/xsl-list/293509> (by
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