RE: Generating high-level formatting output

["Didier PH Martin" <martind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Sebastian,

Sebastian said:
 >  - XSLT doesn't grok SGML.  For me this is a killer because I want
it could, surely? today, no, but in theory it could

Didier says:
In theory a lot of things are possible. However, XSL is indented for XML as
DSSSL is indented for SGML and de facto for its subset XML. But yes in
theory everything is possible even for a DSSSL document to be at the same
time XSL and DSSSL :-)).

Sebastian said:
 > I can't see this.  DSSSL is a standard, is well integrated with the
grove,
If I may be Devil's advocate, a failed standard is not a meaningful
standard. I *want* to believe that someone will implement the ISO
Standard for DSSSL; I *wish* XSL hadn't been invented (not as much as I
wish the Neanderthal CSS had never seen the light of day); I *want* to
use round brackets. Its just that my wishes tend not to come true.

Think of XSL as genetically-modified DSSSL. Do you expect to see GMO
tomatoes in Sainsburys in 10 years time? you bet you do. Its bad, its
wicked, some of us will try and stay organic and GM free until we die,
but those tomatoes are coming.....

Didier says:
I see it as a new language based on "<>" markups. There are others like
DSSSL based on a different syntax (scheme based) and so there is some others
based on procedural/rule based like Omnimark. Each one is having its own
virtues and will evolve differently. I do not see that XSL is a new
genetically improved DSSSL. This is what some would us to believe. DSSSL can
become what _we_, as users, decide it will be. There is always ways to
propose to ISO (but this time with experiments) the result of a community
work.

Actually the reality of the XSL world is that several individuals or groups
are creating their own XSL implementation. To keep inter-operability, they
have to stick to the "recommendations". So, if one allows SGML processing, I
am not so sure, I can use an other packages offering the same features (it
may be the only one offering this). But, I can expect to have at last all to
support most of the recommendations (we'll see in times if this is the
case).
The case for OpenJade is different. There is only one DSSSL implementation:
Jade and its new successor OpenJade. OpenJade is the result of a community
effort like Linux is. This is our own version of the Cathedral and the
bazaar. This is not yet the case of any XSL processor. In fact, XSL
processors are more controlled by players like Microsoft, Lotus, IBM and Sun
than it is based on the common effort of a community. OpenJade can become
what we want it to become and DSSSL to.

Thus, Sebastian, the OpenJade project is very different from what is
happening in the XSL community. We are building something common based on
efforts of people like you. But I put some emphasis on the fact that the
DSSSL future is in our hands, this is a standard for a small community: the
DSSSL user community. This community can decide of the DSSSL future and have
it evolve in a positive way.

We even succeeded (I hope) to have people from the Linux world cooperate
with people in the Win32 world. Both sharing a common cathedral: Openjade.
Both having the same goal: have OpenJade evolve and prosper. Both sharing
the best of their knowledge. I cannot say the same thing of the XSL universe
dominated by Microsoft, IBM and Sun (java). In OpenJade, we try to keep the
core code transportable and adapted to other platforms like the different
flavor of Linux, Unix, windows. What is common in this diversity is
OpenJade.

Of course, W3 has bigger budgets for promotion, some deserted the DSSSL
community to join the big pockets and some still improve what pioneers like
James did by creating Jade.

OpenJade future is limited by our own creativity. As long as talented people
will be part of this group, OpenJade will evolve. Actually, I am reassured,
we have this talent pool.

But keep in mind that OpenJade future is what _we_ as a group decide it will
be.


Regards
Didier PH Martin
mailto:martind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.netfolder.com


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