Subject: Re: [jats-list] Re: Tagging user facility support - ORCID Working Group question From: "Bruce Rosenblum bruce@xxxxxxxxx" <jats-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:29:53 -0000 |
Hi Mark, After reading your latest comments, my impression (without being an expert) is that "funding", "support", and "awards" can be very complex and also very nuanced. Even more so in a world with more OA publication daily. I would be willing to consider adding new elements to JATS to support additional requirements rather than using attributes of the existing model, but only if a much broader survey is done first to figure out the full matrix of what constitutes "funding", "support", "awards" or other types of potentially similar issues that can occur for which JATS may need metadata support. Part of that review should also consider any other pre-existing data models for representing this kind of information, e.g. talking to funding agencies about some of their metadata tracking. I realize this is not a small project and it would probably require a sub-committee within the JATS standing committee to give it a proper analysis and vetting, but it's the much better way to go for the long-term than just adding a few elements that meet the more specific need you've outlined. Best regards, Bruce At 02:39 PM 8/2/2017, Mark Doyle doyle@xxxxxxx wrote: Hi, Thanks Chuck and Tommie for your earlier reply. To be clear, this is distinct from B (but related to) intramural funding because the "award" is to someone outside of the funding organization, whereas intramural funding is funding to people who work within a funding organization (for example, an employee of NASA whose work is supported by NASA by virtue of their employment status, but there is no explicit award). Furthermore, intramural funding isn't always the same as being an employee of a funding source, which makes that particular issue rather tricky. On the specific issue I am asking about, the user facilities do issue awards to (external) principal investigators, but it is for things like beam time, computational time, etc. The awards have a proposal id that are used as unique identifiers. So both Tommie and Chuck have suggested keeping this information within <funding-group>, but with Chuck suggesting more specific tagging to better distinguish traditional funding from these other kinds of support. These could be divided into separate <funding-group>'s with an attribute distinguishing the types of support, but if we are going to add new tags, perhaps a better container element than <funding-group> should be entertained as well (my option #2, but with revisions). In support of this: off-list, I had solicited input from one of the people involved in maintaining the open funder registry. He pointed out (like Tommie) that there are other kinds of support that may need to be acknowledged. For example USGS provides maps and others provide physical samples. One could easily envision the entities involved would want to be able to easily track their contributions as well. So we would need to think carefully about how to incorporate these kinds of things in a scalable way that allays Tommie's concerns about an expanding list of tags. This person also suggested not conflating funding with these other kinds of support and, thus, expressed a preference for a more developed version of Option #2. Let me suggest more generic tags than in my original undeveloped Option #2: <research-support-group> B B <research-support support-type="....."> B B B B B <support-id> B B B B B <principle-support-recipient> B B B B B <support-source> B B B B <support-description> Would this be more palatable? I agree with Chuck that submitting this for discussion by the Standing Committee is the most sensible thing; my interest here is to make sure the committee has a good starting point for their consideration. I am sure there will be a 1.2d2, so there is no need to try to get this into 1.2d1, which I am eagerly awaiting for other reasons! ;^) Best, Mark On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 1:30 PM, ckoscher <ckoscher@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: This type of activity is known as intramural 'funding', which had a change request #00587 "Intramural Funding"B that was tabled by the SC. Reusing the existing <award-group> where there is no award seems wrong to me. It permits misuse of element like <principle-award-recipient>B or <principle-investigator>B where the words recipient and investigator have specific meaning in the domain of grants aka awards. I believe a dedicated set of tags under <funding-group> should be developed that makes clear the distinction between actual grants/awards and what might be consideredB 'overhead' contributions by a facility or an agency where the contribution may be human resources, lab facilities, existing data .. etc. This is probably an issue that the SC should consider addressing now (I'm regretting letting 000587 get tabled) . Chuck On 8/1/17 5:27 PM, Mark Doyle wrote: Dear all, I am part of an ORCID working group that is working with publishers and US Department of Agency national labs that provide researchers with access to user facilities run by the DOE. The goal is to try and better track the publications that result from research conducted at these facilities. You can learn more about this effort at https://orcid.org/about/community. One of the questions that has arisen in our discussions is how might we best accomplish the tagging of this type of support, which is distinct from direct monetary funding. Before submitting a request for a change in JATS, the group has asked me to consult here. The main concern is whether user facility usage, which does have to go through a request/approval process and gets an award number, should be considered semantically the same as "funding." Also, I have explicitly cc'ed Chuck from Crossref because we also have concerns about how this might work when publishers deposit metadata using JATS. 1) So one option is to simply use <funding-group> and include an agreed upon new value for the award-type attribute on <award-group>, something like: <funding-group> B B <award-group award-type="grant"> B B B <funding-source country="US">National Science Foundation</funding-source> B B B <award-id>NSF DBI-0317510</award-id> B B </award-group> B B <award-group award-type="facility-support"> B B B <funding-source country="US">Spallation Neutron Source</funding-source> B B B <award-id>SPS 12345</award-id> B B </award-group> </funding-group> This solution doesn't require a change to JATS, but may require additional facilities added to the Crossref Open Funder Registry. 2) Another solution would be to introduce a new container element and new tags that are more specific to research facilities and non-monetary group to avoid the semantic confusion over the term "funding". For example, new (not fully thought out) tags could be <research-facility-group>, <user-facility>, and/or <facility-award>, etc. This has the advantage of strongly identifying the semantics of the information and perhaps could be made general enough to support other kinds of non-monetary support. This would of course require new tags to be introduced into JATS. 3) Another possibility that was discussed was to somehow incorporate this information using affiliation tagging, but the working group consensus was that this wasn't a good approach. It would be helpful to have some feedback on options 1 and 2 (or other suggestions!) so that the working group could make a strong recommendation, if needed, to the JATS Standing Committee. Thanks for considering. Best regards, Mark Mark Doyle Chief Information Officer American Physical Society JATS-List info and archive EasyUnsubscribe ( by email) ------------------------------------------------------------------- This email message and any attachments are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately reply to the sender or call 617-932-1932 and delete the message from your email system. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce D. Rosenblum Inera Inc. 19 Flett Road, Belmont, MA 02478 phone: 617-932-1932 (office) email: bruce@xxxxxxxxx web: www.inera.com | www.edifix.com twitter: @eXtyles | @edifix JATS-List info and archiveEasyUnsubscribe (by email)
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