RE: Interlibrary loans from other institutions' electronic databases?

["Blobaum, Paul" <p-blobaum@xxxxxxxxx>]

John,
 
I don't know of one single library who provides Interlibrary Loan articles from their full text aggregated database subscriptions.  When I was involved in ILL activities,  I have gotten yelled at in the past by several academic library Interlibrary Loan librarians when I have requested an article from a journal title located by searching an online consortium catalog;  that the title can only be accessed by their faculty, staff, and students, and wasn't I stupid for not knowing this.  
 
If there are libraries who are commonly printing articles from the Full Text holdings and sending them via Interlibrary Loan, it sure is news to me.  
 
Paul Blobaum, Health Sciences Librarian
Governors State University Library

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: John T. Mitchell [mailto:John@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
	Sent: Thu 9/23/2004 9:58 PM 
	To: Blobaum, Paul; 'Valerie A. Lang'; digital-copyright@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
	Cc: 
	Subject: RE: Interlibrary loans from other institutions' electronic databases?
	
	

	Perhaps I lack the proper context, but this statement by Paul sent a
	chill own my spine: "It was really a revelation to me that academic
	institutions are negotiating license agreements to include Fair Use and
	ILL access rights, and really any other thing that is traditional in
	libraries."  I was not aware of that.
	
	We are in pretty deep trouble if we are at the point of having to
	negotiate to exercise Section 107 rights, considering that Congress has
	declared these to be superior to the copyright.  Perhaps what was meant
	was negotiate an agreement that the library would not be sued for
	exercising fair use in certain ways, but it is close to the same thing
	The heavy penalties for infringement are, of course, a strong incentive
	for libraries to get permission for what they have a right to do without
	permission, as insurance in case the copyright owner disagrees with
	their interpretation, but I would hope libraries would, as a general
	rule, insist that fair use analyses is for them to make without
	negotiation, and even over the copyright owner's objection.
	
	John
	___________________
	John T. Mitchell
	http://interactionlaw.com
	
	
	>  -----Original Message-----
	>  From: Blobaum, Paul [mailto:p-blobaum@xxxxxxxxx]
	>  Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:42 PM
	>  To: Valerie A. Lang; digital-copyright@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
	>  Subject: RE: Interlibrary loans from other institutions'
	>  electronic databases?
	> 
	> 
	>  I just attended an EXCELLENT videoconference yesterday,
	>  September 22, 2004, on licensing digital content, produced
	>  the Medical Library Association and College of DuPage <Glen
	>  Elyn, IL>.  I thought the program was going to be a snooze
	>  but boy was I mistaken.  It was very interesting and
	>  informative.  Our local Chicago and South Consortium of
	>  health science libraries sponsored a downlink site at a
	>  local community college.   It was really a revelation to me
	>  that academic institutions are negotiating license
	>  agreements to include Fair Use and ILL access rights, and
	>  really any other thing that is tradiitional in libraries. 
	>  This is a wonderful development that has a lot potential to
	>  strengthen a library's mission and  research role in the
	>  online environment.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  Basically, it depends on how the license agreement with the
	>  publisher of the content in construed.  Just because the
	>  digital content is listed on a union list doesn't mean the
	>  library can lend content.  But it doesn't mean it can't
	>  either... Ask and they will tell you.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  The libraries that have successfully negotiated ILL usage
	>  also say they are restricted from emailing an article in PDF
	>  format... they have to print it off and then fax it, or
	>  ARIEL it.  THey are still working on the publishers on this
	>  issue... really a library user isn't going to duplicate the
	>  article and send to 1,000 of people, usually. Besides the
	>  end user could also rescan the article and misuse it the way it is. 
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>   A lot of the issue about achieving Fair Use and other
	>  traditional library rights  is educating the publishers
	>  about how libraries are needed for research purposes, that
	>  the library isn't going to just email the articles to the
	>  whole planet, and that the library is interested in building
	>  a mutual beneficial relationship with the publisher.  And on
	>  top of that, libraries pay BIG BUCKS for the databases. 
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>   In our library, scarce attention is given to the license
	>  agreements... partly because we are so stretched for staff
	>  resources at the current time.  When I asked about where our
	>  license agreements were...someone said "oh we signed that 10
	>  years ago when we first got a database" and they don't seem
	>  to know whats in the license or be able to put their hands
	>  on it.  We pay the invoices and talk to the sales reps once
	>  in a while, thats that.   I think we need to look at
	>  retaining content in a local depository for perpetual use;
	>  build that into the license agreement, and try to rebuild a
	>  library decimated by budget cuts resulting in a loss of
	>  print materials. 
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  For anyone interested, the videotape of the teleconference
	>  is on sale... the url for the ordering form is at :
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  http://www.mlanet.org/pdf/ce/licenses_sales.pdf   .  Also,
	>  the regional medical libraries of the National Library of
	>  Medicine often carry copies of these conferences for lending
	>  purposes... other libraries might have copies to lend too in
	>  a few weeks.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  Best,
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  Paul Blobaum
	> 
	>  Governors State University Library
	> 
	>  University Park, IL
	> 
	> 
	> 
	>       -----Original Message-----
	> 
	>       From: Valerie A. Lang [mailto:langval@xxxxxxxx]
	> 
	>       Sent: Thu 9/23/2004 11:32 AM
	> 
	>       To: digital-copyright@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
	> 
	>       Cc:
	> 
	>       Subject: Interlibrary loans from other institutions'
	>  electronic databases?
	> 
	>      
	> 
	>      
	> 
	> 
	> 
	>       Crossover interlibrary loan / copyright issue and yet
	>  another "first" for me
	> 
	>       in this role:
	> 
	>      
	> 
	>       Is it permissible for one academic institution to
	>  request journal articles,
	> 
	>       via interlibrary loan, from a specific electronic
	>  database, held at another
	> 
	>       institution?
	> 
	>      
	> 
	>       E.g., A local university subscribes to JSTOR, we do
	>  not.  Would it be a
	> 
	>       violation of copyright to request full text articles
	>  from this institution's
	> 
	>       JSTOR database?  I would think the terms of licensing
	>  agreements could
	> 
	>       preclude this and the amount of journal articles
	>  requested would determine
	> 
	>       whether fair use principles would allow it or not.
	> 
	>      
	> 
	>       Thank you in advance.
	> 
	>      
	> 
	>      
	> 
	>       Valerie A. Lang
	> 
	>       Librarian / Instructor
	> 
	>       Dwight Marvin Library
	> 
	>       Hudson Valley Community College
	> 
	>       Troy, NY  12180
	> 
	>       Phone: 518.629.7319
	> 
	>       Fax: 518.629.7509