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RE: [Virtools] Token System

I am well informed about a company calling their building blocks channels
and working on a Virtoos clone?
I'm sorry, Andres, I don't know what you're talking about.
Could you be more precise?

Francois

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
[mailto:owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com]De la part de
Andres Carrera
Envoyé : mercredi 8 août 2001 23:53
À : virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
Objet : Re: [Virtools] Token System


Francois

I understand the change in direction that Virtools is
taking.
I hope that virtools reach that position on the "high
end" market with a well stabilished name and product.
But we have to keep in mind that if we don't want to
take care of a "Job", there will be others that will
take care of it for the half of our salary.

I say this, because, Virtools wants to be a big player
in the "high End", with their unique and exclusive way
to make complicated tasks as simple as just drag and
link a few blocks, that is the stength of Virtools,
this is why people have to buy it, so if people need
it ( and i think, at least, we really need it ) people
have to pay for it and get used to Virtools market
plan or strategy.

I remember like 2 years ago, when the first version of
Virtools was released and Virtools S.A. was asking for
distributors, we was looking for a real solution for
our coming projects and clients, something that we can
use, even if our programmers leave the company,
erasing all of the hdisks, and installing a
destructive virus in the workstations ( yes, they can
get very mad if you don't give them that new mouse pad
!! ) so i talked with some employee of Virtools and
discussed about the difference in the 2 options that
we was evaluating Virtools 1 and a Behavioral
Character application that now is part of the nextgen
SoftImage. Virtools told me "Our application is
different, we can apply behaviors to anything, not
just characters, so there is no comparation...". That
was the point that make us to take the descition to go
with Virtools for our company.

I know, i know, you are probably saying " and, what we
care about that story " ..... Sorry is just i get very
melancholic with our past key descitions.

But, Francoise, now is a little different, because you
are no alone in the BuildingBlocks authoring
applications. There is a new company that is working
on a Virtools clone. We are beta testers of that
application and ( i think you are well informed about
it ) is a real clone of Virtools, the only big
difference is that they call their BB, "channels", is
so similar that even they have many version of that
application, one is called ***** Creation and other is
***** Dev. They will target both markets, "high end"
and "low end".

So, i wrote this to tell you that, please take in mind
all the competition when Virtools S.A. do their market
descitions. I really like virtools and want the best
for your Dev application (your Dev success = our Dev
based product success ).


Thanks

Andres Carrera
ACE-3D

Game Content for Game Developers
aceinc@uio.telconet.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Francois Dujardin <dujardin@virtools.com>
To: Virtools List
<virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: [Virtools] Token System



> Thanks for your constructive feedback. My position
doesn't allow me to
> answer on all subjects, but he is what I can say:
>
> - about the marketing issue, you are making a very
good point. We couldn't
> sustain an 'entry-level' product like Creation due
to the size of our
> company. Instead of continuing in that direction and
jeopardize our future,
> we decided to withdraw that product and focus on a
higher end solution, on
> which we felt we were in a good position to become
an established player.
> The issue of turning our backs on 'the 'small
potatoes' (in your words) was
> a complex one, and was discussed a lot before we
made the decision. Our move
> to a higher end market was needed to ensure our
future until the market (and
> us) is fully ready for a product like Creation.
>
> - about your concern regarding marketing acceptance
of Virtools: it is clear
> that we alone can't have the impact of a very big
player entering the
> market. We need strong partnerships to do that.
Watch the upcoming Siggraph
> announcements on that subject.
>
> -back to support issues. The token system is by
nature an 'unpopular'
> decision. It is also the only way to ensure e-mail
answers to all questions
> in a decent amount of time. We also acknowledge that
support is a key issue
> to establish the software, and we'll keep our
efforts in that direction.
> This mailing list was created just for that. As
Virtools employees, we
> usually answer questions here as much as we can
(some programmers use
> nicknames, but you might be able to spot them ;),
and we will keep doing it
> to the best of our ability, regardless of the token
system. The slight
> difference here is an important one: with the token
system, we have a legal
> commitment to respond to questions; with the mailing
list, we have a moral
> commitment to do so. Obviously, with the growing
number of questions, we can
> only commit to try our best to answer in a timely
manner. I encourage you to
> use this channel (the mailing list or the forums) to
sort out most
> questions, and use the token system for very
difficult (or confidential)
> ones (our tech support guys are going to kill me for
saying that).
>
> I hope this answers your concerns.
>
> Francois Dujardin
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
>
[mailto:owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com]De
la part de
> Jon Lee
> Envoyé : mercredi 8 août 2001 19:16
> À : Virtools List
> Objet : Re: [Virtools] Token System
>
>
> I have some concerns and comments not only about the
token support system
> but
> also about Virtools marketing strategy.  I don't
want this to be interpreted
> as
> an unconstructive flame against Virtools.  It is
intended as the
> constructive
> feedback/criticism that they have expressed they
value from their customers.
>
> I purchased a copy of Creation but have so far
refrained from upgrading to
> DEV
> SE.  I am a solo developer who writes database
applications and is just
> venturing into 3D content creation.  I say this
because with the
> cancellation of
> Creation, I am concerned that Virtools has made a
marketing decision to no
> longer cater to the entry level 3D developer.
>
> I am disappointed and surprised by this decision.
Disappointed because I
> have
> invested in a product that I can no longer afford to
maintain.  Surprised
> because the reason I thought Virtools had come up
with their innovative
> visual
> programming model was to make the program accessible
to a wider, less
> technical
> user base:  Namely, the small media houses without
an extensive programming
> staff and solo developers.  The 'small potatoes' as
it were.
>
> I realise that there is an upgrade path to SE for
Creation users but no
> further
> updates are allowed after that.  So, I am reticent
to continue upgrading a
> product that I know has no future.  As I currently
do not make any money
> from my
> 3D work, upgrading to DEV is just not financially
possible for me.
>
> Interactive 3D is the next big thing to be
conquered, especially on the web.
> Macromedia has already won the 2D war.  There is
nothing I would like better
> than to see the Virtools web player become as
ubiquitous as the Flash
> player.
> But for this to happen there must be a LOT of
developers making a LOT of
> quality
> content.  That's where I believe the small guys like
myself come in.  We are
> the
> small town preachers who can spread the word of
Virtools.  But if the tool
> is
> priced beyond our grasp you will have to rely only
on the larger firms who,
> with
> more resources, are perhaps able to design more
impressive titles but there
> will be far fewer of them.
>
> Virtools *is* the best product currently on the
market in it's category.
> But
> IMHO that is not enough.  You need as many people as
possible to know about
> and
> USE the tool for it to become dominant in the
marketplace.  From everything
> I've
> read the concerns that Shockwave 3D will supersede
Virtools are based on
> marketing acceptance not technical features. When
replies come like: "If you
> feel there is a better product, then use that
instead."  I feel that the
> point
> is being missed.  I don't think many users here
believe that other products
> are
> better technically.  But, I believe the concern is
that we don't want to see
> Virtools, a superior product, lose out because of
marketing and developer
> relations issues.
>
> When systems like token support are introduced, the
perception (by myself
> anyway) is that support is *discouraged*.  When I
read between the lines it
> sounds like: "Look, we're REALLY busy so don't
bother us unless it's REALLY
> important".  That is not very encouraging to new
developers and appears to
> cater
> once again only to the established developers who
already know the product
> and
> will only ask 'intelligent' questions.  The 'small
potatoes' like myself,
> who
> have invested in your product, have a steep learning
curve ahead.  Yes, we
> will
> undoubtedly ask some stupid questions as we learn
but that is what learning
> is
> all about.  If we are afraid to "use up" our support
asking simple questions
> as
> we learn fearing that we will need that support
later when we are
> experienced,
> we won't ask at all and may get frustrated when we
can't adopt the program
> as
> quickly or as thoroughly as we'd like.  With the
current token policy, I
> believe
> you will maintain an small niche of elite users but
your software will not
> propagate as quickly as it could to new developers.
>
> I have rambled on long enough.  In closing:
>
> 1. Please at least reconsider the dead-end upgrade
policy to SE --  I
> seriously
> believe that it is in Virtools best interest to
cater to the broadest range
> of
> developers as possible to achieve the highest market
saturation.
>
> 2. Please reconsider your token support policy -- I
understand that you have
> limited resources and do not want to allocate them
unnecessarily.   But good
> support is far from unnecessary.  Perhaps you could
consider some
> alternatives:
> Give unlimited email support only to users who
provide a valid serial
> number.
> And/Or you might consider providing official support
through a newsgroup
> that is
> only available to registered users.  As newsgroup
threads make it easier to
> search for already answered questions this may cut
back on your volume.
>
> I hope you take these comments and suggestions in a
positive light as they
> are
> intended.  I think Virtools is an excellent product
and ideally would like
> to
> upgrade and continue using it.  Make me believe that
you have not forgotten
> about us 'small potatoes'.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon Lee
>
>
>
>
>
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