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Re: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support

Hi,

I don't want to deliberate a lot about all those e-mails (this is not my
battle), but just to correct something.
You said:

> "Even the Physics Pack from Havok costs approxemately 5000 EURO right? The
Macromedia Director
8.5, now with a lot of 3D-features, delivers the package for free!!!"

Did you tried the physics in Director ?
I'm sure you didn't, because what you get for free is not even 5% of what
you get in the Virtools/Havok Physics Package.

Araya



----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Liebl" <matthias.liebl@raysono.com>
To: "Francois Dujardin" <dujardin@virtools.com>; <support@virtools.com>;
<virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: AW: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support


> Hi Francois!
>
> Thank you for your answer!
>
> First I want to refer to the following item. The Communication between
> Virtools and other tools really is a problem! I have got a lot of
experience
> within 4 month we use Virtools.
>
> ---------------
> E.G.: I few days ago in the newsgroup!
>
> This the politic of Virtools Technical Support, I have not words
>
> Question
> I want create a communications beetwen Virtools and Vbasic but I tryed
> to send msg to Active X in VB but the virtools not receive null.
> The same applications run perfect in the IE Broswer using Javascript to
> communicate.
> Can you help me to solve this problem.
> Thank you
> Roberto Troiani
>
>
>  Answer of Virtools
> Hi Roberto,
> We do not provide support to our web player use if that use is not a web
> page.
>
> Make sure I am sorry about that.
>
> The token associated to this question will not be removed from your total.
>
> regards,
>
> Nicolas Augustin
> Virtools Technical Support
> ---------------
>
> We have bought the Virtools Behavior Server and did not get the full
version
> yet. Paid a lot of money for it within three Virtools Dev. licences! Still
> using the Beta-Version. Does it come with the final release? When do we
get
> the final version of Virtools? The version should be available now, I have
> heard. We have paid for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Further on I am not the only one who is complaining about Virtools. The
tool
> is really a powerful application (I say it how it is!), but how do you
want
> to  announce it with such a politics and inflated prices? Even the Physics
> Pack from Havok costs approxemately 5000 EURO right? The Macromedia
Director
> 8.5, now with a lot of 3D-features, delivers the package for free!!!
>
> We have bought the Physics Pack also because we need it for a complex
> simulation or better a CBT with 3D-Visualizing and the behavior of the
> avatar is eminent important for us. You know the problem from Nicolas? And
> have seen the avatar? The file just shows a very little part of the
system.
> We have sent you only the problem with the water.
>
> The programming in Virtools and the communication to other tools via
network
> and databases (for that Virtools Behavior Server) is in progress and
> working, but the physics did not work until yesterday!
>
> We have asked often, I have written in the Newsgroup, Roland have asked
you
> from Berlin and got no satisfied answer. Now we had the teaching here with
> Roland and all (!) problems are solved! We are not programming a #Quake
> styling Game# we are developing a complex system between eight PCs and
> realtime rendering within updating the positions of every avatar in every
> Virtools Scene and additionell updating other parameters like weather,
wind,
> fog, river power, lighting etc.! And this is allmost working via Database
or
> Direct Communication!
>
> But the Physics...
>
> Hope you will send me the information about the full version!
> We have bought a very big package and are waiting for it!
>
> Sorry for the strong complaining in the Newsgroup!
> The Newsgroup is really a fantastic feature and cannot answer every
question
> I know this. But sometimes this complain has to be (in the direction of
> Virtools)... Sorry...!
>
> Thank you for all,
>
> Regards, Matthias
>
>
> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> [mailto:owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com]Im Auftrag von
> Francois Dujardin
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2001 17:31
> An: virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> Betreff: RE: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support
>
>
> Sometimes I don't understand the e-mails that are posted to this group.
>
> In the same message, you are saying:
> 1. Virtools support sucks
> 2. Roland Wagner helped us a great deal, it was fantastic, we are very
> happy
> 3. The mailing list and news group never provided any good answers.
>
> Well, when you acquired your Virtools licenses, you also purchased some
> training and tech support access. Roland Wagner help you as an official
> Virtools representative, so when Roland Wagner is helping you, it's
> Virtools helping you. We are happy to learn that you were satisfied with
> the training you paid for.
>
> About the user group not helping you, well, where are your questions? As
> far as my mailbox can trace, I have never seen you posting a message
> before.
>
> Tech support. The token-based system is here to ensure that support is
> being used properly (that is, to avoid 'read the manual' questions). You
> might not like this approach, but it turns out it is just impossible to
> answer all questions with a decent delay and quality if we have to deal
> with 'read the manual' questions. Tokens are just a 'safety net', if you
> like, and we're trying our best to be open-minded with it and re-credit
> tokens when it seems fair enough.
>
> Anyway, since we want all our customers to be supported (and also people
> that are not even our customers, but maybe just testing the product), we
> set up this user list, for all the questions that you want answered
> without going through token tech support.
>
> It turns out you have used only one token of your support. One out of
> the 30 that came with the package you acquired. So you have hardly
> reached its limits, have you?
>
> Finally, the limit between tech support and consulting sometimes happens
> to be fuzzy --> some questions that we receive are more 'how do I create
> a quake-style game?' than 'what's this feature for?' We're trying our
> best to answer all questions efficiently, but where is the limit?
>
> We understand that you have deadlines and commitments on projects. Our
> goal is to help you be successful. When you know you'll have a tight
> deadline or a tricky situation, please contact us early enough, so we
> can evaluate how we can best help. We read e-mails. We read this user
> group. We can help. Besides tech support, we provide training,
> consulting, and we even sometimes undertake part of your development
> needs. Don't wait until your project is in jeopardy.
>
> It's ok to criticize what we do and the way we do it, because we're
> willing to try harder, and we need all kinds of feedback. But please
> also consider this: instead of just blaming us, talk to us. Use us. It
> can only make your Virtools projects better.
>
>
> Francois Dujardin
> VP Professional Services
> dujardin@virtools.com
>
> Virtools - The Behavior Company
> Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86
> Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
> www.virtools.com
>
> 93, rue Vieille du Temple
> 75003 PARIS
> FRANCE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> [mailto:owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com] On Behalf Of
> Matthias Liebl
> Sent: jeudi 29 novembre 2001 15:48
> To: virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> Subject: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support
>
> Hi TheSwapMeet ;-)
>
> We just have had a very good support and teaching by two collegues from
> Yello in Berlin who showed us the power of Virtools especially in VR and
> also teaching applications.
>
> The very poor support and philosophy (token system etc.) of Virtools is
> a
> shame. We had a lot of problems esp. with the Physics Engine of Havok
> and
> all (!) are solved within two days because of the fantastic help of
> Roland
> Wagner (from Yello, Distributor of Virtools in Germany). No newsgroup
> (Sorry!) and no support of Virtools itself has offered such a
> fundamental
> support!!!!
>
> All features of Virtools and its far reaching possibilities are
> transparent
> now and this should be published I think. Virtools really should think
> about
> its philosophy of support. Otherwise nobody will use it any more because
> of
> the missing and delayed support and arrogant philosophy (token system,
> purchase).
>
> By the way: Virtools thinks that they don't need any support at their
> support from Berlin... ;o(
> Hope they know what they are doing and not doing...
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Matthias Liebl, Germany
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Matthias Liebl [Learning Systems]
> Ray Sono AG (Bremen) [company]
> Matthias.liebl@raysono.com [E-Mail]
> Otto-Lilienthal-Str.8, 28199 HB [Snail Mail]
> +49 (0)421 59647-37 [Phone]
> +49 (0)421 59647-77 [Fax]
> www.raysono.com [Meet Ray]
>
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