[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
[Date Index] [Thread Index]
[Monthly Archives] [List Home]

Re: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support

This one is my battle:
Did you ever tried the physics of the true Havok engine, I mean 1.5Vmr3 wich
is the one
currently on sale? Because the Virtools Physics pack rely on a 2 years old
engine from a
disapeared company it is not even 5% of it. And this for a price less than
20 times (5%).
Did you ever try to import hke files with Virtools?
Not to talk about the support I get from Havok as a beta tester with respect
to the support
I had as a Virtools licensed user using the mentionned pack in a comercial
environment.
Just wanted to give my point of view. I am not telling you are wrong. This
only is my point of view.

Christian Garnier.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Araya" <araya@easynet.fr>
To: <virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support


> Hi,
>
> I don't want to deliberate a lot about all those e-mails (this is not my
> battle), but just to correct something.
> You said:
>
> > "Even the Physics Pack from Havok costs approxemately 5000 EURO right?
The
> Macromedia Director
> 8.5, now with a lot of 3D-features, delivers the package for free!!!"
>
> Did you tried the physics in Director ?
> I'm sure you didn't, because what you get for free is not even 5% of what
> you get in the Virtools/Havok Physics Package.
>
> Araya
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthias Liebl" <matthias.liebl@raysono.com>
> To: "Francois Dujardin" <dujardin@virtools.com>; <support@virtools.com>;
> <virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 11:24 AM
> Subject: AW: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support
>
>
> > Hi Francois!
> >
> > Thank you for your answer!
> >
> > First I want to refer to the following item. The Communication between
> > Virtools and other tools really is a problem! I have got a lot of
> experience
> > within 4 month we use Virtools.
> >
> > ---------------
> > E.G.: I few days ago in the newsgroup!
> >
> > This the politic of Virtools Technical Support, I have not words
> >
> > Question
> > I want create a communications beetwen Virtools and Vbasic but I tryed
> > to send msg to Active X in VB but the virtools not receive null.
> > The same applications run perfect in the IE Broswer using Javascript to
> > communicate.
> > Can you help me to solve this problem.
> > Thank you
> > Roberto Troiani
> >
> >
> >  Answer of Virtools
> > Hi Roberto,
> > We do not provide support to our web player use if that use is not a web
> > page.
> >
> > Make sure I am sorry about that.
> >
> > The token associated to this question will not be removed from your
total.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Nicolas Augustin
> > Virtools Technical Support
> > ---------------
> >
> > We have bought the Virtools Behavior Server and did not get the full
> version
> > yet. Paid a lot of money for it within three Virtools Dev. licences!
Still
> > using the Beta-Version. Does it come with the final release? When do we
> get
> > the final version of Virtools? The version should be available now, I
have
> > heard. We have paid for it!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Further on I am not the only one who is complaining about Virtools. The
> tool
> > is really a powerful application (I say it how it is!), but how do you
> want
> > to  announce it with such a politics and inflated prices? Even the
Physics
> > Pack from Havok costs approxemately 5000 EURO right? The Macromedia
> Director
> > 8.5, now with a lot of 3D-features, delivers the package for free!!!
> >
> > We have bought the Physics Pack also because we need it for a complex
> > simulation or better a CBT with 3D-Visualizing and the behavior of the
> > avatar is eminent important for us. You know the problem from Nicolas?
And
> > have seen the avatar? The file just shows a very little part of the
> system.
> > We have sent you only the problem with the water.
> >
> > The programming in Virtools and the communication to other tools via
> network
> > and databases (for that Virtools Behavior Server) is in progress and
> > working, but the physics did not work until yesterday!
> >
> > We have asked often, I have written in the Newsgroup, Roland have asked
> you
> > from Berlin and got no satisfied answer. Now we had the teaching here
with
> > Roland and all (!) problems are solved! We are not programming a #Quake
> > styling Game# we are developing a complex system between eight PCs and
> > realtime rendering within updating the positions of every avatar in
every
> > Virtools Scene and additionell updating other parameters like weather,
> wind,
> > fog, river power, lighting etc.! And this is allmost working via
Database
> or
> > Direct Communication!
> >
> > But the Physics...
> >
> > Hope you will send me the information about the full version!
> > We have bought a very big package and are waiting for it!
> >
> > Sorry for the strong complaining in the Newsgroup!
> > The Newsgroup is really a fantastic feature and cannot answer every
> question
> > I know this. But sometimes this complain has to be (in the direction of
> > Virtools)... Sorry...!
> >
> > Thank you for all,
> >
> > Regards, Matthias
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > [mailto:owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com]Im Auftrag von
> > Francois Dujardin
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2001 17:31
> > An: virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > Betreff: RE: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support
> >
> >
> > Sometimes I don't understand the e-mails that are posted to this group.
> >
> > In the same message, you are saying:
> > 1. Virtools support sucks
> > 2. Roland Wagner helped us a great deal, it was fantastic, we are very
> > happy
> > 3. The mailing list and news group never provided any good answers.
> >
> > Well, when you acquired your Virtools licenses, you also purchased some
> > training and tech support access. Roland Wagner help you as an official
> > Virtools representative, so when Roland Wagner is helping you, it's
> > Virtools helping you. We are happy to learn that you were satisfied with
> > the training you paid for.
> >
> > About the user group not helping you, well, where are your questions? As
> > far as my mailbox can trace, I have never seen you posting a message
> > before.
> >
> > Tech support. The token-based system is here to ensure that support is
> > being used properly (that is, to avoid 'read the manual' questions). You
> > might not like this approach, but it turns out it is just impossible to
> > answer all questions with a decent delay and quality if we have to deal
> > with 'read the manual' questions. Tokens are just a 'safety net', if you
> > like, and we're trying our best to be open-minded with it and re-credit
> > tokens when it seems fair enough.
> >
> > Anyway, since we want all our customers to be supported (and also people
> > that are not even our customers, but maybe just testing the product), we
> > set up this user list, for all the questions that you want answered
> > without going through token tech support.
> >
> > It turns out you have used only one token of your support. One out of
> > the 30 that came with the package you acquired. So you have hardly
> > reached its limits, have you?
> >
> > Finally, the limit between tech support and consulting sometimes happens
> > to be fuzzy --> some questions that we receive are more 'how do I create
> > a quake-style game?' than 'what's this feature for?' We're trying our
> > best to answer all questions efficiently, but where is the limit?
> >
> > We understand that you have deadlines and commitments on projects. Our
> > goal is to help you be successful. When you know you'll have a tight
> > deadline or a tricky situation, please contact us early enough, so we
> > can evaluate how we can best help. We read e-mails. We read this user
> > group. We can help. Besides tech support, we provide training,
> > consulting, and we even sometimes undertake part of your development
> > needs. Don't wait until your project is in jeopardy.
> >
> > It's ok to criticize what we do and the way we do it, because we're
> > willing to try harder, and we need all kinds of feedback. But please
> > also consider this: instead of just blaming us, talk to us. Use us. It
> > can only make your Virtools projects better.
> >
> >
> > Francois Dujardin
> > VP Professional Services
> > dujardin@virtools.com
> >
> > Virtools - The Behavior Company
> > Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86
> > Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
> > www.virtools.com
> >
> > 93, rue Vieille du Temple
> > 75003 PARIS
> > FRANCE
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > [mailto:owner-virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com] On Behalf Of
> > Matthias Liebl
> > Sent: jeudi 29 novembre 2001 15:48
> > To: virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > Subject: [Virtools] Damn Virtools-Support
> >
> > Hi TheSwapMeet ;-)
> >
> > We just have had a very good support and teaching by two collegues from
> > Yello in Berlin who showed us the power of Virtools especially in VR and
> > also teaching applications.
> >
> > The very poor support and philosophy (token system etc.) of Virtools is
> > a
> > shame. We had a lot of problems esp. with the Physics Engine of Havok
> > and
> > all (!) are solved within two days because of the fantastic help of
> > Roland
> > Wagner (from Yello, Distributor of Virtools in Germany). No newsgroup
> > (Sorry!) and no support of Virtools itself has offered such a
> > fundamental
> > support!!!!
> >
> > All features of Virtools and its far reaching possibilities are
> > transparent
> > now and this should be published I think. Virtools really should think
> > about
> > its philosophy of support. Otherwise nobody will use it any more because
> > of
> > the missing and delayed support and arrogant philosophy (token system,
> > purchase).
> >
> > By the way: Virtools thinks that they don't need any support at their
> > support from Berlin... ;o(
> > Hope they know what they are doing and not doing...
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Matthias Liebl, Germany
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > Matthias Liebl [Learning Systems]
> > Ray Sono AG (Bremen) [company]
> > Matthias.liebl@raysono.com [E-Mail]
> > Otto-Lilienthal-Str.8, 28199 HB [Snail Mail]
> > +49 (0)421 59647-37 [Phone]
> > +49 (0)421 59647-77 [Fax]
> > www.raysono.com [Meet Ray]
> >
> > ...............................................................
> > Distributed via the virtools-user-group list:
> > http://www.theswapmeet.com/numl.html
> > To reply to the list instead of its author, use "Reply to All"
> > To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe virtools-user-group" to
> > Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > To subscribe: send "subscribe virtools-user-group" to
> > Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > To post a message: send it to virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > ...............................................................
> >
> > ...............................................................
> > Distributed via the virtools-user-group list:
> > http://www.theswapmeet.com/numl.html
> > To reply to the list instead of its author, use "Reply to All"
> > To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe virtools-user-group" to
> > Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > To subscribe: send "subscribe virtools-user-group" to
> > Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > To post a message: send it to virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > ...............................................................
> >
> > ...............................................................
> > Distributed via the virtools-user-group list:
> http://www.theswapmeet.com/numl.html
> > To reply to the list instead of its author, use "Reply to All"
> > To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe virtools-user-group" to
> Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > To subscribe: send "subscribe virtools-user-group" to
> Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > To post a message: send it to virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> > ...............................................................
> >
> >
>
> ...............................................................
> Distributed via the virtools-user-group list:
http://www.theswapmeet.com/numl.html
> To reply to the list instead of its author, use "Reply to All"
> To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe virtools-user-group" to
Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> To subscribe: send "subscribe virtools-user-group" to
Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
> To post a message: send it to virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
> ...............................................................

...............................................................
Distributed via the virtools-user-group list: http://www.theswapmeet.com/numl.html
To reply to the list instead of its author, use "Reply to All"
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe virtools-user-group" to Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
To subscribe: send "subscribe virtools-user-group" to Majordomo@lists.theswapmeet.com
To post a message: send it to virtools-user-group@lists.theswapmeet.com
...............................................................
References: