Re: [xsl] Re: I believe!

Subject: Re: [xsl] Re: I believe!
From: JCS <subscriber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:00:59 +1300
Hello hello,

I want to chime in here while this topic is fresh.

Something I don't like within the internet culture is when people give
"advice with a price". The advice is needed, the price is being treated
harshly and sometimes with abuse.

I know from experience when people get impatient with me I feel nervous,
incapable, and frustrated. I'd rather people not respond to my questions if
they're not ready to deal with--more questions!

Everybody has to start somewhere. Usually, from the start. Which means the
beginning. Which is where everyone starts.

If you're giving advice on this list, please do it with patience and
understanding. Just because people don't understand the concepts doesn't
mean they are incapable of learning them. I've been part of the
communications industry for fourteen years. Sometimes the communication that
is swapped in a tech forum such as this is as far from clear communication
as one could possibly get. This is a result of those in "the know" expecting
beginners to understand concepts which are, at first, difficult to
comprehend. XSL has a high learning curve--not because the language is
difficult, but because it's being *taught* to be difficult.

Everyone seems to have a different idea of what XSL terminology actually
means. Furthermore, XSL has more analogous roots than any other computer
language I've ever dealt with. I've said this before and I'll say it
again--and I don't care what the old timers say--this language has to be
prepped for the next generation. I should be able to explain this to a
literate ten year old child. And one day, they'll be expecting us to.

So to all the other beginners in here--don't apologize for asking questions.
If people are going to offer rude advice then remember--you don't have to
take the behavior with the advice.

And for those giving advice--if you're taking the time to give the advice,
please don't make assumptions or have expectations that people know what you
may be talking about. Just because one knows XSL does not mean one is
qualified to *teach others* how to use it. The best way a teacher can help a
student is to learn how to *listen*.

Happy Holidays everyone.

/johnny :) 

On 20/12/03 12:06 PM, "kakridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <kakridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

> " Everyone on XSL-List intends to be polite and should be treated
> politely in return."
> I'm not so certain about that.  I was pretty upset by a response the
> other day.  I kept it to myself though because I ended up getting good
> feedback on my problem.  I know it's easy for me to get impatient with
> people when they don't understand things that I think they should
> understand.  Please don't forget about the rookies like myself.  I'll
> stop asking silly questions eventually.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph
> Kesselman
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 5:28 PM
> To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [xsl] Re: I believe!
>> Recite after me: "I believe. I believe.  It's silly, but I believe.
>> Everyone on XSL-List intends to be polite and should be treated
>> politely in return. I believe. It's silly, but I believe."
> That's a good new-year's resolution!
> Folks may be tired or distracted or bothered by other things and be a
> bit
> snappish as a result. Don't snap back -- that just gets into a flame war
> and everyone loses! -- just clarify your note or ask for clarification
> of
> their answer, as required. Or let someone else handle the remaining
> unresolved questions, or let it rest and come back to it after folks
> have
> calmed down.
> (I'm not always great at this either -- I know I can be an officious SOB
> at
> times -- but I'm trying to learn.)
> ______________________________________
> Joe Kesselman, IBM Next-Generation Web Technologies: XML, XSL and more.
> "The world changed profoundly and unpredictably the day Tim Berners Lee
> got bitten by a radioactive spider." -- Rafe Culpin, in r.m.filk
> XSL-List info and archive:
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"A lot of people mistake a short memory for a clear conscience."
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