RE: getting element name into html using MSXML3 (Arrogant RTFM)

Subject: RE: getting element name into html using MSXML3 (Arrogant RTFM)
From: "Paulo Gaspar" <Paulo.Gaspar@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:44:23 +0200
Hi Dan,

As usual, perception rules on flame wars and we do not need another.

On my side, I should have been more careful about the way I wrote my 
posting, since I am able to imagine that you could have lost a lot 
of time due to that problem. I am sorry about that.

Your mail made me understand that.

Now that your posting fixed my perception, let's try to get you 
perceiving what I meant.

I would prefer that you (and others) would not take what I said as a 
flame. I know it is mostly my fault since I am not tactful when I write.
Going straight to the point can become quite arrogant when one does not
pay attention to the reader feelings, and I should know better.

I ended my posting like this:
> Do your "home work" before complaining. Many people will not help 
> you in your troubles if they notice you didn't care to do the 
> obvious before taking someone else's time.
> I am not complaining either, just trying to open your eyes to the
> necessary pains of developing software solutions.

Sounds arrogant huh? Sure does.

But it still states a truth.

I could have considered that you spent a lot of effort fighting with 
that problem but I can assure that I already spent a lot more on 
XSLT/MSXML issues before I found this mailing list. I understand 
your frustration since I felt the same.
(Ok... I know I spent more because I am doing it for much longer.)

If I had found this mailing list before or a book as good as Michael
Kay's "XSLT Programmer's Reference", I would have saved quite over 100 
hours of learning/understanding how XSLT and MSXML work.
(And that is why I keep advertising the book.)

And it is far from being the first time I waste a lot of time to get
something working (I can remember as far as trying Turbo Prolog), and
sometimes having to quit on it afterwards (Turbo Prolog comes to mind 

This can be a hard profession where we often spend way too much time 
learning something just because there is no good source of information.
That has a lot to do with using brand new technologies.

And the younger the tool the harder it is to find good documentation.

The problem is made worse by the time pressure and lack of (human) 
resources under which some of these tools are developed. This factors
are the direct cause of:
 - Lack of proper documentation long after the tools are released;
 - Lack of availability of the development team for support work.

Due to this last point, tool developers (I am talking in terms of
human developers and not in terms of company) have to be selective in
terms of the requests for support they answer. And then, for sure
they will skip issues which they know to be clearly documented.

The matter is made worse in the case we are talking about - beta 
versions. With final products we can still demand that the company
makes better support available, but with betas and other 
non-supported products there is a clear "you are on your own trying 
this" company position.

The thing is: you are contributing to the quality of the new product 
and in return you have the opportunity to learn how to use it in 
advance. And that does NOT mean that the learning will be easier than 
later, just that it may take place earlier.

This is a very friendly and helpful mailing list, but my experience 
is that this is the exception and NOT the rule. (At least if I 
consider some news...)

Believe me, the quality of the documentation that is provided with 
MSXML3 is quite above what is usual for a beta. And my past experience 
getting support on new stuff is so bad that I use it as a last resort.

And again, with betas, it is not because some one is evil. It's 
 - Companies usually provide no support on betas;
 - Developer personal is time stressed.

Specially with beta stuff, one should grab and use (RTFM) as many 
information about a tool as possible, before using it. (SDK's included)

Bottom line: 
I did not mean that you did not make an effort. What I meant is that 
you should expect things to be very hard and be prepared for it.

Maybe I still sound arrogant, but I am not refusing my time to you. 
What I am is trying to "open your eyes" (quoting myself again =:o( ) 
for what I believe being the most important things:
 - Preparation;
 - Preparation;
 - ...
 - Preparation.

In the mean time, I also told you where to get the documentation, right?

Have fun and try to forgive my lack of tactfulness,


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dan Morrison
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 4:01 PM
To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: getting element name into html using MSXML3 (Arrogant RTFM)

Paulo Gaspar wrote:
> I am sorry Dan, but I think your problem with the "easy-preview" it is
> mostly your own fault.

I am indeed humbled and admit I did not follow all of the 10 steps you

.... uurg.

OK, I've managed to keep out of silly flame-wars up until now, so I'll
give up and go back to doing something constructive like helping people
or building something...

[Sorry, no smiley today]


: Dan Morrison        : The Web Limited    :
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: If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

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