Re: [niso-sts] Question regarding alternative and description text

["G. Ken Holman g.ken.holman@xxxxxxxxx" <niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Done! Thank you, Tommie. I very much appreciate you joining the discussion.

https://groups.niso.org/higherlogic/ws/public/view_comment?comment_id=1245

At 2023-11-13 22:13 +0000, B Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> To comment on STS I suggest starting at:
>
>   https://www.niso.org/standards-committees/sts
>
> which points to the (current) comments page. (I would point you 
> directly to the comments page, but that changes with every version 
> and https://www.niso.org/standards-committees/sts is stable. On the 
> assumption that people may find this discussion in the list archives 
> I would rather point to a location that is most likely to be useful 
> in the future.)
>
> -- Tommie
>
> > On Nov 13, 2023, at 5:01 PM, G. Ken Holman g.ken.holman@xxxxxxxxx 
> <niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Tommie!
> >
> > As I am trying to provide guidance to my clients, I would 
> appreciate bringing the question of the normative/non-normative 
> properties for <alt-text> and <long-desc> to the committee.
> >
> > Would you please point me to a procedures page where I can learn 
> more regarding how to pose my question to them?
> >
> > I have ideas for the PDF rendering, and I like Liam's comment 
> regarding a helpful annex. So I'm feeling more comfortable now 
> regarding what I might offer clients in regards to the rendering.
> >
> > I'm left with the question of guidance regarding what information 
> clients should and should not be putting into these "non-visual" constructs.
> >
> > Thank you, again.
> >
> > . . . . . . Ken
> >
> > At 2023-11-13 21:19 +0000, Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >> Ken --
> >>
> >> I think you are asking two questions:
> >>   * in STS, is the content of the <alt-text> and <long-desc> 
> normative? and
> >>   * how should this content be handled when rendering STS 
> documents in PDF?
> >> I do not remember any conversations in the STS committees or in 
> the ISO work that preceded it about <alt-text> and <long-desc>. To 
> my recollection, these elements were adopted from JATS without 
> discussion. Since journal articles do not have normative and 
> non-normative content, JATS provides no guidance on the normative 
> status of <alt-text> and <long-desc>. This might be an interesting 
> question to pose to the STS standing committee.
> >>
> >> As for how <alt-text> and <long-desc> should be handled in PDF. 
> I see no reason standards documents should be different in this 
> respect from any other document. (I am told that including the 
> information needed for screen readers in PDF documents is fiddly 
> but possible. I have no first hand experience doing this.)
> >>
> >> -- Tommie
> >> ======================================================================
> >> B. Tommie Usdin mailto: 
> <mailto:btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Mulberry Technologies, Inc. 
> <https://www.mulberrytech.com>https://www.mulberrytech.com
> >> Mulberry Technologies, Inc.: A Consultancy Specializing in XML 
> for Prose Documents
> >> ======================================================================
> >> On Nov 13, 2023, 3:21 PM -0500, G. Ken Holman 
> g.ken.holman@xxxxxxxxx <niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, wrote:
> >>> Rereading the documentation, I think I found the key phrase I 
> was looking for:
> >>>
> >>> "non-visual element"
> >>>
> >>> ... found for both elements. So, I guess that is definitive that I
> >>> have no rendering obligations outside of those used for assistive
> >>> access, and so I conclude it must not contain normative content.
> >>>
> >>> Although I am a bit worried when I read for <long-desc>:
> >>>
> >>> "... explains both the visual form of the chart
> >>> and significance of its findings."
> >>>
> >>> ... because I would think "significance" borders on being normative.
> >>> If the long description is to be assistive regarding an impairment
> >>> preventing the visualization of a graphic or table or formula, any
> >>> accompanying general text would/should already have normative
> >>> significance for all readers and, therefore, should not be in
> >>> assistive content that not all readers access.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway ... I have my direction.
> >>>
> >>> So I withdraw my question ... sorry for taking up the bandwidth.
> >>>
> >>> . . . . . . . . Ken
> >>>
> >>> 
> https://www.niso-sts.org/TagLibrary/niso-sts-TL-1-0-html/element/alt-text.html
> >>> 
> https://www.niso-sts.org/TagLibrary/niso-sts-TL-1-0-html/element/long-desc.html
> >>>
> >>> At 2023-11-13 19:59 +0000, G. Ken Holman g.ken.holman@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >>>> Fellow NISO STS list members,
> >>>>
> >>>> May I consider content found in <alt-text> and <long-description> as
> >>>> informative and not normative? I see nothing in the documentation
> >>>> that states one way or the other.
> >>>>
> >>>> My thought is that a PDF or paper rendering would (typically) hide
> >>>> this content from the reader. As a publisher of said content, do I
> >>>> have any obligation to render these elements visibly due to them
> >>>> possibly being normative?
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't think of why they would be normative. Important, yes, but
> >>>> authoring STS I wouldn't expect something normative to be stated in
> >>>> these elements, so I can make some assumptions when rendering.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you for your thoughts.
> >>>>
> >>>> . . . . . Ken
> >


--
Contact info, blog, articles, etc. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/j/ |
Check our site for free XML, XSLT, XSL-FO and UBL developer resources |
Streaming hands-on XSLT/XPath 2 training class @US$125 (5 hours free) |
Essays (UBL, XML, etc.) http://www.linkedin.com/today/author/gkholman |