RE: HTML is a formatting/UI language was: RE: Formatting Objects considered harmful

Subject: RE: HTML is a formatting/UI language was: RE: Formatting Objects considered harmful
From: Håkon Wium Lie <howcome@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:27:47 +0200 (MET DST)
Jonathan Borden wrote:

 > >  > Transmitting XHTML probably does not make sense when we could instead get
 > >  > the client to do the transformation. I think we can all agree on that.
 > >
 > > Yes. But how will you make existing browsers perform transformations?
 > >
 > 	This comment gives me the sense that your real argument is that: "Client
 > side XSL itself is harmful" rather than just "XFO is harmful".

No, I think document manipulation through declarative XTL sheets is
much better than imperative JavaScripts. As long as a document makes
sense without there being a transformation engine in the receiving
end, I don't have any problem with adding extra functionality through
transformations in the client.

 > This logic is dangerous for innovation. The XSL spec is not even finished
 > yet we are already seeing (IMHO) fantastic innovation. By this logic, there
 > is no need for the Opera browser because there are 100 million existing
 > Netscape and IE browsers in use.

Hey, 1M of those 100M is an Opera browser :-)

 > To answer your question: One way to retrofit existing browsers is via MIME
 > filters. Didier Martin, for example, has discussed the use of a MIME filter
 > in IE and Mozilla to render SGML and XML via DSSSL. The filter intercepts
 > the MIME request, transforms the document and passes this along.
 > 	Another technique is via client side Javascript & Java transformation etc.
 > etc. etc. 

For new formats to establish themselves on the Web, tight integrations
with browsers has proven necessary. I don't think you can find a way
to support XTL through deployed JavaScript implementations, but I'm
happy to be proven wrong.

 > What facilities does Opera have to allow client side XSL
 > transformations, and what facilities are planned?

We have XML&CSS running internally. That was easy due to availability
of XML parsers, and if someone can give me a 20k XTL DLL which is
freely embedable...


Håkon Wium Lie   
howcome@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                      simply a better browser

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