RE: [xsl] Re: XSLT model not "natural"? [was Re: [ANN] FreeMarker 2.3 as an alternative to XSLT]

[Américo Albuquerque <melinor@xxxxxxx>]

Hi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Jonathan Revusky
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 6:59 PM
> To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [xsl] Re: XSLT model not "natural"? [was Re: 
> [ANN] FreeMarker 2.3 as an alternative to XSLT]
> 
> 
> Américo Albuquerque wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>[mailto:owner-xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> >>Dimitre Novatchev
> >>Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 7:30 AM
> >>To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: [xsl] Re: XSLT model not "natural"? [was Re: [ANN] 
> >>FreeMarker 2.3 as an alternative to XSLT]
> >>
> >>
> >>Maybe it is very hard for babies to start walking.
> 
> Well, in case you are visiting from Mars, I think I should point out 
> that human infants start to walk and to talk at a certain age without 
> any particular teaching or training effort whatsoever.

First of all, wasn't me who said that, so it would be polite if you had
replied to the original thread.

It isn't entirely true that human infants start walking and talking without
training, they have training, it is a different kind of training that
doesn't require a teacher, it is made manly by there parents.

> 
> Meanwhile, various academic studies attest to the fact that neither 
> human infants nor adults start spontaneously writing XSLT 
> stylesheets at 
> any age.

As with any other programing language

> 
> I think the above surprising facts go a long way towards 
> explaining why 
> Mulberrytech, for example, is able to have a viable business training 
> people to use XSLT, and does not offer equivalent training in 
> teaching 
> toddlers how to walk.
> 
> >>
> >>Shall we "protect" them from this difficulty and ensure they
> >>were easily crawling around all their life?
> >>
> >>Make a special tool/product to ensure this?
> 
> <sigh>
> 
> This analogy with toddlers learning to walk is surely one of 
> the worst 
> metaphors I've heard in a long time. Not only do toddlers 
> learn to walk 
> spontaneously with no adult intervention, but also, they necessarily 

As said before not completely true, they had to have some adult intervention
otherwise they simply would walk at all. This intervention is, of course,
spontaneous. The parents give the example. They "teach" there children how
to walk and how to talk by doing that in front of them, children learn manly
by imitation.

> *must* learn to walk. There is no equivalent need for 
> everybody to learn 
> XSLT. For all of it, it's just one more IT tool among many.
> 
> If another tool can be used for the same purposes and good 
> results can 
> also be achieved, but with far less training effort, say, 
> that may well 
> be an advantage that one should consider. Again, this is a 
> question that 
> would have to be resolved empirically.

I agree with  you. It has been said many times that in some situations xslt
wasn't the wright tool for the job.

> 
> I posted the announcement here because I am interested in getting 
> feedback about FreeMarker's new declarative XML processing 
> functionality. I am not terribly interested in hearing 
> dubious analogies 
> like this, that, besides being obviously absurd, do not contain any 
> useful content.
> 
> Well, maybe I'm being a bit oversensitive, but it seems to me 
> that the 
> subtext of this ridiculous analogy was that it was meant as a 
> put-down. 
> I think, in any case, that people should think more about 
> what they're 
> saying before saying it -- like, whether what they're saying 
> makes any 
> sense or has any constructive content whatsoever.... that 
> kind of thing...

I wasn't trying to make any king of analogies but simply stating that many
of what we are is based on what we learn, even talking.

  Américo Albuquerque



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