Hmmm, I suspect that some of my comments apply only to Version 2. To be honest, I have been working with Virtools for quite a while now on Version 2 so my memories of 1.0.1 are a little sketchy.
In Dev 2 you can easily select a region via CTRL-left mouse button then drag over the region. You can copy, paste, move, cut, etc.. Plus, all those connecting lines automatically path find and connect for you so you don't have to do any of that manually any more (if set to do so in the General Preferences).
I need to double check on Behavior Graphs but I don't think that their version is dynamically checked when the file is loaded so if you do find a bug or error then you would have to update them manually. Again, with planning and a little (lot of?) luck, this can be relatively straightforward or, at times, very annoying.
On shortcuts, well, I tend to stay away from them because of the design approach that I use. For maximum reuse, I try hard to use messages that I define instead. That way, I don't have to deal with that issue - but at the cost of a single frame delay and associated processing overhead.
Generally, I don't end up "re-dropping all my scripts" because I save them with my object. Once I am happy with the object then I save it with the scripts. If I need more of the objects, I drag in more of them. If I need the scripts to work on other objects, well I just copy the script in the level manager to the new object.
In my experience, planning and testing were the the key to success. That, and a lot of practice - I look back at some of my scripts from a couple of years ago and I just shake my head and wonder how I could have thought that my approach was reasonable.
I do agree with you that visual programming can never be quite as flexible as coding - one can simply never anticipate everything. That is why I write my own BBs - so I can't disagree ;-) However, once you reach critical mass in the BG department - look out!
Here is an example that I use in my classes. Visualize this scenario - you have a level with a character running around in it (a "Place" in Dev). You are actively controlling your character. Now, *while your level is still running* you drop a new Place into 3D Layout, grab the Translate tool and move the new Place such that it abuts the original Place. You go back to controlling your character and run from the old Place to the new Place and just keep right on going.... no stopping to compile your code, your level, nothing ==> just keep on running!
I, at least, think that is very cool.
Your consistency issues have been largely addressed in Version 2. I say largely because I have seen posts of reports that I haven't been able to duplicate but that *may* still be outstanding - I just don't know.
I don't know whether you are using Version 2 or not. By your comments, I suspect that the answer is no. If you haven't upgraded, all I can say is that Version 2 is a very significant upgrade - it almost seems like a new application to me at times. If you can afford it, I believe that the upgrade is worth every penny.
Disclaimer: I was part of the Beta Test group and I did help write and edit the new User Guide so my opinion is probably biased.
I'm having fun with this discussion - is anybody else?
David Callele
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Wane [SMTP:bpwane@smerc.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:09 PM
To: Callele, David
Cc: cyberart; Virtools List
Subject: RE: [Virtools] Virtools Promises and Competion
Hmmm.
I can see your point about planning but let's say you ever wanted
to change anything at all in your scripts and that those scripts wer on
many objects.
First of all, I have found massive bugs in Virtools and a complete
inconsitency between the creation environment, varying scenes and the
player environment. So I have had to change scripts after making them work
in one environment.
The fact that you have to re-drop all your scripts and that you
lose so many short cuts is infuriating. I just don't see this visual
programming environment ever being as flexible as code. For instance. You
can't even select and drag a group of program blocks. You have to move
each one and then move all the little lines. It is such a waste of time. I
could go on for hours. if I am missing some key functionality in Creation
please let me know. It would make my life a lot easier.
b
:: Smerc Design ::
:: 646.319.4232 ::
On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Callele, David wrote:
> I think that I will take my turn at commenting on the scripting thing...
> These comments aren't directed at Robert or Brian, this email just happens
> to be the latest in my Inbox.
>
> That said, for Robert: Dev does not contain a scripting language but access
> to the source code for all BBs and the interface to the underlying engines
> (the SDK). It is possible to dynamically create a script using the SDK but
> I have never found the time to get that deeply into that part of it.
>
> There are times when I could not agree with you more about the desirability
> of having a scripting language. For me, those times occur when I am
> performing mathematical manipulations on data - I usually just escape to
> writing a custom BB as necessary.
>
> For me, the greatest power in Virtools architecture lies in Behavior Graphs
> (BGs) and scripted objects. I plan my project (and plan and plan) trying to
> identify the objects (both visual and in an object oriented sense) that the
> project requires and the behaviors associated with each object. Then, for
> each object I start to build the behaviors from the ground up - always
> looking for "meta-behaviors", those behaviors that can be encapsulated as a
> Behavior Graph for (potential) reuse. After a while, I have found that I
> have built a library of BGs that are very useful in other development
> efforts. Once I have built all of my behaviors and encapsulated them as BGs
> (for reuse if possible or appropriate), I end up with an object that has one
> or more scripts where each script simply contains a single BG. Then, I save
> each object as a scripted object (NMO format) for later assembly into my
> final composition.
>
> The end result has worked very well for me - I have the BGs available for
> reuse and the scripted object that is added to my composition (with all
> scripts atttached) by simply dragging into the rendering window - but at the
> cost of doing the initial planning.
>
> But, then again, isn't that initial planning what we are always supposed to
> do on our projects? ;-)
>
> Whenever I have planned my projects in detail, I haven't *really* missed
> access to a scripting language. Now, if only I could force myself to always
> follow my own advice from above, sigh.
>
> To me, the ability to take a media object of some form, then make it
> interactive by attaching behaviors, and then saving it as a new "object" is
> just incredible. I simply have never experienced such an elegant solution
> to taking arbitrary data and turning it into an "object" in the
> object-oriented programming sense and, as is probably pretty obvious by now,
> I really do enjoy it.
>
> There, off of my soap box.
>
> Lest anyone think otherwise, I do believe that there are a number of
> enhancements that can be made to Dev - just check with Nicolas in Tech
> Support to see how often I have "offered my advice" :-o
>
> Have a great day,
>
> David Callele
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cyberart [SMTP:cyberart@frontiernet.net]
> > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:18 AM
> > To: Virtools List
> > Subject: Re: [Virtools] Virtools Promises and Competion
> >
> > Brian Wane wrote:
> > > Personally, as a user of creation and Director I am over joyed at being
> > > able to code 3d normally again in Director. I've programmed 3d in a
> > number
> > > of packages and I find the Creation visual programming environment
> > incredibly
> > > inefficient. Perhaps Dev is better.
> >
> > This is a point of curiosity for me, too. I've used Creation; haven't used
> > Dev.
> > I had hoped perhaps there was a scripting language in Dev
> > to do the networking which in Creation you have to do manually in the
> > Schematic View.
> >
> > In some ways working in the Schematic View struck me as analogous to
> > working in Maya's Hypergraph (or Hypershade).
> > But if that were the *only* way of working in Maya
> > (and you didn't have Maya's scripting language MEL to automate processes)
> > it would get very tedious at times.
> > ---
> > Robert
> > ...............................................................
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> > ...............................................................
>
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