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Re: [jats-list] Translations for section titles

Subject: Re: [jats-list] Translations for section titles
From: "B Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <jats-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 15:09:04 -0000
Hi Gerrit --

I'm jumping in because your example of interleaved titles and paragraphs in
multiple languages makes me very uncomfortable. I think there is a much more
graceful way to encode what I think you are describing and to provide the
linking at multiple levels that I think you need.

The example below shows:
  - several levels of sections, each with a label, title, and some content at
the bottom level.
  - The "same" text is provided in 3 languages. (Please don't get caught in
the details of the language content,
    it was created by an auto-translator and it probably horrible. I hope it
is good enough to make my point.)
  - each of the language versions is structurally coherent, that is, it is a
section with it's identified language
    and content as a JATS user would expect to see it
  - at all levels the structures are associated with the other language
versions of the same structure, which should
    allow side by side alignment should that be desired

I don't know if the list will mangle this example; if it does and anyone
reading it wants a clean copy, please send me email at
btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and I'll be happy to send a zipped copy to you
directly.

-- Tommie

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!--<!DOCTYPE article SYSTEM
"some-imaginary-future-JATS-journalpublishing1-X.dtd">
-->
<article xml:lang="mul">
 <processing-meta lang-grouping="yes"> </processing-meta>
 <front>
  <journal-meta><journal-id/><issn/></journal-meta>
  <article-meta>
   <title-group><article-title/></title-group>
   <content-language>en</content-language>
   <content-language>nl</content-language>
   <content-language>el</content-language>
  </article-meta>
 </front>
 <body>
  <sec>
   <title>Testbed</title>
   <sec xml:lang="en" lang-group="sec-1" id="sec-1">
    <!-- In English -->
    <label>Part I.</label>
    <title>Rules of Order.</title>
    <sec lang-group="sec-1-1" id="sec-1-1">
     <label>Art. I.</label>
     <title>Introduction of Business. [B'B' 1-5.]</title>
     <sec lang-group="sec-1-1-1" id="sec-1-1-1">
      <label>1.</label>
      <p>All business should be brought before the assembly by a
       motion of a member, or by the presentation of a communication
       to the assembly. It is not usual, however, to make a motion to
       receive the reports of committees [B' 30] or communications to
       the assembly; and in many other cases in the ordinary routine
       of business, the formality of a motion is dispensed with; but
       should any member object, a regular motion becomes
       necessary.</p>
     </sec>
     <sec lang-group="sec-1-1-2" id="sec-1-1-2">
      <label>2.</label>
      <p>Before a member can make a motion or address the assembly
       upon any question, it is necessary that he obtain the floor;
       that is, he must rise and address the presiding officer by his
       title, thus: "Mr. Chairman" [B' 34], who will then announce the
       member's name. Where two or more rise at the same time the
       Chairman must decide who is entitled to the floor, which he
       does by announcing that member's name. From this decision,
       however, an appeal [B' 14] can he taken; though if there is any
       doubt as to who is entitled to the floor, the Chairman can at
       the first allow the assembly to decide the question by a
       votebthe one getting the largest vote being entitled to the
       floor.</p>
     </sec>
    </sec>
   </sec>

   <sec xml:lang="nl" lang-group="sec-1">
    <!-- In Dutch -->
    <label>Deel I.</label>
    <title>Orderegels.</title>
    <sec lang-group="sec-1-1">
     <label>Kunst. I.</label>
     <title>Introductie van het bedrijfsleven. [B'B' 1-5.] </title>
     <sec lang-group="sec-1-1-1">
      <label>1.</label>
      <p>Alle zaken dienen aan de vergadering te worden voorgelegd
       door een motie van een lid of door de presentatie van een
       mededeling aan de vergadering. Het is echter niet gebruikelijk
       om een motie in te dienen om de verslagen van commissies [B' 30]
       of mededelingen aan de vergadering te ontvangen; en in veel
       andere gevallen in de gewone gang van zaken wordt de
       formaliteit van een motie achterwege gelaten; maar mocht een
       lid bezwaar maken, dan wordt een reguliere motie
       noodzakelijk.</p>
     </sec>
     <sec lang-group="sec-1-1-2">
      <label>2.</label>
      <p>Voordat een lid een motie kan indienen of de vergadering kan
       toespreken over een vraag, is het noodzakelijk dat hij het
       woord krijgt; dat wil zeggen, hij moet opstaan en de voorzitter
       aanspreken met zijn titel, dus: "Meneer de Voorzitter" [B' 34],
       die dan de naam van het lid zal aankondigen. Wanneer twee of
       meer tegelijk opstaan, moet de voorzitter beslissen wie het
       woord mag voeren, hetgeen hij doet door de naam van dat lid
       bekend te maken. Tegen deze beslissing kan hij echter beroep
       instellen [B' 14]; Maar als er enige twijfel bestaat over wie
       het woord heeft, kan de voorzitter bij de eerste gelegenheid de
       vergadering toestaan om de kwestie door middel van een stemming
       te beslissen ; degene die de grootste stem krijgt, heeft het
       woord. </p>
     </sec>
    </sec>
   </sec>

   <sec xml:lang="el" lang-group="sec-1">
    <!-- In Greek -->
    <label>NN-ON?O I.</label>
    <title>NN1N=ON=N5O ON,N>N7O.</title>
    <sec lang-group="sec-1-1">
     <label>N$N-ON=N7. I.</label>
     <title>NN9ON1N3O	N3N. ON7O N5ON9ON5N/ON7ON7O. [B'B'
1-5.]</title>
     <sec lang-group="sec-1-1-1">
      <label>1.</label>
      <p>NN;N5O N?N9 N5ON9ON5N9ON.ON5N9O N8N1 OON-ON5N9 N=N1
OON?ON,N3N?ON= N5N=OON9N?N= ON7O
       OON=N-N;N5OON7O N<N5 OOOON1ON7 N<N-N;N?OO N. N<N5 ON7N=
ON1ON?OON/N1ON7 N1N=N1N:N?N/N=O	ON7O
       OON7 OON=N-N;N5OON7. N)OOOON?, N4N5N= N5N/N=N1N9
OO
N=N7N8N5O N=N1 OON?N2N,N;N;N?N=ON1N9
       OON?ON,ON5N9O N3N9N1 ON7 N;N.ON7 OO	N= N5N:N8N-ON5O	N= OO	N=
N5ON9OON?OON= [B' 30] N. OO	N=
       N5ON9N:N?N9N=O	N=N9ON= OON?O ON7 OON=N-N;N5OON7B7 N:N1N9 ON5
ON?N;N;N-O N,N;N;N5O ON5ON9OOOON5N9O
       OON7 OON=N.N8N7 ON?OON/N=N1 OO	N= N5ON3N1ON9ON=, N7
N5ON9ON7N<OON7ON1 N<N9N1O OOOON1ON7O
       N1ON?OON,ON8N7N:N5. N1N;N;N, ON5 ON5ON/OOO	ON7 ON?O
N?ON?N9N?N4N.ON?ON5 N<N-N;N?O
       N1N=ON9ON1ON8N5N/, N:N1N8N/OON1ON1N9 N1ON1ON1N/ON7ON7 N<N9N1
ON1N:ON9N:N. N:N/N=N7ON7.</p>
     </sec>
     <sec lang-group="sec-1-1-2">
      <label>2.</label>
      <p>NN9N1 N=N1 N<ON?ON-ON5N9 N-N=N1 N<N-N;N?O N=N1 OON?N2N,N;N5N9
OOOON1ON7 N. N=N1 N1ON5ON8ON=N8N5N/
       OON7 OON=N-N;N5OON7 N:N1OOON9N= N?ON?N9N1ON4N.ON?ON5
N5OOON7ON7O, N5N/N=N1N9 N1ON1ON1N/ON7ON?
       N=N1 N;N,N2N5N9 ON?N= N;ON3N?. NN7N;N1N4N., OON-ON5N9 N=N1
N1N=OOO	N8N5N/ N:N1N9 N=N1 N1ON5ON8ON=N8N5N/
       OON?N= OON?N5N4ON5O
N?N=ON1 N<N5 ON?N= ON/ON;N? ON?O,
N-OON9: B+N:. N OON5N4ON?OB; [B' 34],
       N? N?ON?N/N?O OON7 OON=N-ON5N9N1 N8N1 N1N=N1N:N?N9N=OON5N9
ON? ON=N?N<N1 ON?O N<N-N;N?OO. NON1N=
       N4O
N? N. ON5ON9OOOON5ON5O N1N=OOON=N?N=ON1N9
ON1OOOOON?N=N1, N? OOON5N4ON?O OON-ON5N9 N=N1
       N1ON?ON1ON/N6N5N9 ON?N9N?O N4N9N:N1N9N?O
ON1N9 ON?N= N;ON3N?,
OON,N3N<N1 ON?O N:N,N=N5N9
       N1N=N1N:N?N9N=ON=N?N=ON1O ON? ON=N?N<N1 ON?O N5N= N;ON3O	
N<N-N;N?OO. NN=N?N<N1. NOO ON7N=
       N1OOON1ON7 N1OON., O	OOOON?, N<ON?ON5N/ N=N1 N1ON:N.ON5N9
N-ON5ON7 [N,ON8ON? 14] NN= N:N1N9
       N1N= OON,OON5N9 N1N<ON9N2N?N;N/N1 N3N9N1 ON? ON?N9N?O
N4N9N:N1N9N?O
ON1N9 ON?N= N;ON3N?, N?
       N OON5N4ON?O N<ON?ON5N/ N1OON9N:N, N=N1 N5ON9OON-ON5N9
OON7 N#ON=N-N;N5OON7 N=N1 N1ON?ON1ON/ON5N9
       ON? N5OOON7N<N1 N<N5 ON7ON?ON?ON/N1 b N1OON. ON?O
N;N1N<N2N,N=N5N9 ON7 N<N5N3N1N;O
ON5ON7 ON.ON?
       ON?O N4N9N:N1N9N?O
ON1N9 ON? N;ON3N?.</p>
     </sec>
    </sec>
   </sec>
  </sec>

 </body>
</article>

> On May 4, 2022, at 2:42 PM, Imsieke, Gerrit, le-tex gerrit.imsieke@xxxxxxxxx
<jats-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Vincent (and list),
>
> Yesterday after your presentation and during the JATS-Con social (or happy)
hour I complained that if you have a multiple-language document in which you
choose to tag your content with block-level items and their translations
side-by-side, you can't have translations for section titles.
>
> I was thinking of someone who followed the "content items in two or more
languages" approach
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK579699/#lizzi-content-items-in-two-or-
more-languages) by adding a translation for each figure, table-wrap, p etc.
element that is allowed within a section, side by side.
>
> While you can have multiple figures, tables, paragraphs etc. in a row, you
can't provide translation elements for elements that are allowed exactly once
in a section, in particular, for the title element.
>
> But there's a workaround: You can have the title translations as inline
content in the title element, like so:
>
> <sec id="sec1">
>  <title><named-content content-type="title-content"
lang-group="sec1-content" xml:lang="en">English Title</named-content>
>    <named-content content-type="title-content" lang-group="sec1-content"
xml:lang="fr">Titre franC'ais</named-content>
>    <named-content content-type="title-content" lang-group="sec1-content"
xml:lang="de">Deutscher Titel</named-content></title>
>  <p lang-group="sec1-p1" xml:lang="en">Paragraph</p>
>  <p lang-group="sec1-p1" xml:lang="fr">Paragraphe</p>
>  <p lang-group="sec1-p1" xml:lang="de">Absatz</p>
> </sec>
>
> So I think it's feasible by and large to pursue a block-level translation
approach, with minor sacrifices where you need to process inline
translations.
>
> (Note: I'm not advocating such an approach, but it came up occasionally when
discussing how to tag multilingual content with customers.)
>
> Gerrit
>
>
> --
> Gerrit Imsieke
> GeschC$ftsfC<hrer / Managing Director
> le-tex publishing services GmbH
> Weissenfelser Str. 84, 04229 Leipzig, Germany
> Phone +49 341 355356 110, Fax +49 341 355356 510
> gerrit.imsieke@xxxxxxxxx, http://www.le-tex.de
>
> Registergericht / Commercial Register: Amtsgericht Leipzig
> Registernummer / Registration Number: HRB 24930
>
> GeschC$ftsfC<hrer / Managing Directors:
> Gerrit Imsieke, Svea Jelonek, Thomas Schmidt
>
>

=============================================================================
======
B. Tommie Usdin			mailto: btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Mulberry Technologies, Inc.	https://www.mulberrytech.com
Phone: 301/315-9631
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