Re: [xsl] Initial whitespace in PI from XSLT, main body

["Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev@xxxxxxxxx" <xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Dimitre, how so?

Wendell,

Do we want the behavior of almost all current XML processing tools to
suddenly become "incompliant"?

I certainly don't care one way or the other, as I have no code invested in
using PI's values, but maybe other people's existing tools/suites would
have to be updated in order to become conformant with the new rules, and
the user's assets that are relying on these, ...,  and some may never do so?

I personally would prefer that the way the various XML-related
specifications are maintained were not so conservative in regards to
maintaining backwards compatibility, but this is the reality. Contrast this
with C# or Java/Scala where it is  quite frequent to have some features
made obsolete and no longer supported. The lucky 31st century C#/Java/Scala
programmers will not have to comply with obscure and unexplainable "rules"
that originated thousands of years ago and had no other reasons whatsoever
to being enforced through eternity except to only preserve "backwards
compatibility"...

Cheers,
Dimitre

On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 11:20 AM Wendell Piez wapiez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <
xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dimitre, how so?
>
> Just because current tools preserve whitespace (in PIs) is no reason you
> can't have a rule that says it should not always be assumed to be
> persistent, within your data set or processing scope.
>
> There are actually places where this kind of thing matters. For example, I
> would not want to assert such a (house) rule over comments, mainly because
> if I tolerate comments at all in the data, I had better tolerate line
> breaks, pseudo-markup and ASCII art, or I am apt to lose much of the
> information in the comments. (Am I not?)
>
> However, having rules about the use and "significance" of whitespace
> within markup (indeed within differentiated forms of markup) is so normal
> as to be a perennial FAQ.
>
> Cheers, Wendell
>
> On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 12:57 PM Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev@xxxxxxxxx <
> xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Maybe the solution here is to introduce a new house rule, namely
>> whitespace in PIs is never semantically significant,
>> > at least without further specification of the PI or family of PIs, and
>> hence is fair game for reducing or rewriting.
>>
>> This will violate the current rules, which eliminate only the leading
>> whitespace and leave intact any interim or even trailing whitespace.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dimitre
>>
>> On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 6:46 AM Wendell Piez wapiez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <
>> xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Syd and XSL-List,
>>>
>>> "The client may not even notice that all of her PIs have lost a leading
>>> space after her files are 'fixed' ..." indeed!
>>>
>>> Maybe the solution here is to introduce a new house rule, namely
>>> whitespace in PIs is never semantically significant, at least without
>>> further specification of the PI or family of PIs, and hence is fair game
>>> for reducing or rewriting.
>>>
>>> From this point of view, normalization can be considered a feature not a
>>> bug. The fact that the rule is not in the data model specs does not mean
it
>>> can't hang on your wall. It might be a good rule to have for other
reasons
>>> too. I am not proposing that everyone adopt it. (Maybe there are
>>> counter use cases.) But it might be nice for you.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Wendell
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 3:59 AM Bauman, Syd s.bauman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <
>>> xsl-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the thoughts, Dimitre. Could also use some other character
>>>> (like b  (U+2420) or b$ (U+2424)) and convert it later. But in fact I
have no
>>>> need to force a whitespace character on output. If I donbt mention it,
the
>>>> client may not even notice that all of her PIs have lost a leading space
>>>> after her files are bfixedb with my XSLT. But the spaces are
summarily
>>>> unimportant. (Although it does make me wonder how they got there in the
>>>> first place. :-)
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Syd, I see two ways (if you really need to) to maintain a PI whose
>>>> string value starts with a whitespace character:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Enclose this value in some strippable non-whitespace characters
>>>> (say apostrophes or quotes), or,
>>>>
>>>>   2. If the value is guaranteed not to end with a space character, just
>>>> use the reversed string value, and when you get that in your code,
reverse
>>>> it back.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>
>>>> XSL-List info and archive <http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list>
>>>> EasyUnsubscribe <http://lists.mulberrytech.com/unsub/xsl-list/174322>
(by
>>>> email)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ...Wendell Piez... ...wendell -at- nist -dot- gov...
>>> ...wendellpiez.com... ...pellucidliterature.org... ...pausepress.org...
>>> ...github.com/wendellpiez... ...gitlab.coko.foundation/wendell...
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Dimitre Novatchev
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
>> ---------------------------------------
>> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
>> -------------------------------------
>> Never fight an inanimate object
>> -------------------------------------
>> To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
>> biggest mistake of all
>> ------------------------------------
>> Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
>> -------------------------------------
>> You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what
>> you're doing is work or play
>> -------------------------------------
>> To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
>> -------------------------------------
>> Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
>> -------------------------------------
>> Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they
>> write all patents, too? :)
>> -------------------------------------
>> Sanity is madness put to good use.
>> -------------------------------------
>> I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
>>
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>
>
> --
> ...Wendell Piez... ...wendell -at- nist -dot- gov...
> ...wendellpiez.com... ...pellucidliterature.org... ...pausepress.org...
> ...github.com/wendellpiez... ...gitlab.coko.foundation/wendell...
> XSL-List info and archive <http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list>
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> email <>)
>


--
Cheers,
Dimitre Novatchev
---------------------------------------
Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
---------------------------------------
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
-------------------------------------
Never fight an inanimate object
-------------------------------------
To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
biggest mistake of all
------------------------------------
Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
-------------------------------------
You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what
you're doing is work or play
-------------------------------------
To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
-------------------------------------
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
-------------------------------------
Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write
all patents, too? :)
-------------------------------------
Sanity is madness put to good use.
-------------------------------------
I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.