Re: [niso-sts] Encoding Bibliography

["Dorothée Stadler doro@xxxxxxxxxxx" <niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Tommie,
Well it helps in the sense that what I was doing initially (i.e. having a <sec
sec-type=bbiblb> with the reference lists inside) is your first
suggestion..
However, this means that based on whether or not I want the references grouped
into separate topics (Litteratur=Bibliography, the others are just group
headings for the subsequent references), I will have to choose a different
encoding option. This then again means that my standards will not all be
encoded the same way and also that they are inconsistent with what ISO does.

If the NISO schema would allow to add other elements between <ref> inside a
<ref-list>, then I could just add the headings as <p>. So back to my question:
why is NISO so restrictive? Is there a reason we cannot allow more flexibility
inside a <ref-list> element?
Or, from another angle: why does NISO not bforceb a <sec> element above a
<ref-list> (a bit like Gerrit described with his schematron rules)? This would
allow everyone to encode the Bibliography section consistently and be able to
easily choose to add as many <ref-list>s as required. I would also find it
more consistent that Bibliography is encoded the same, regardless of location
(you were mentioning sec-type=bbiblb should be used when Bibliography is
not in the Back matter)...

Kind regards
DorothC)e

---------------------------------------------
DorothC)e Stadler

Rathenower Str. 38
10559 Berlin
Tel: +49 1525 840 85 93
doro@xxxxxxxxxxx



> On 10. Oct 2018, at 17:09, B Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi DorothC)e b
>
> Based on your sample, I see two reasonable options:
>
> If bLitteraturb is the title of a structure that contains the references
below it, you might use:
>
>        <sec  sec-type='bibl'>
>            <title>Litteratur</title>
>            <p>For dokumenter ...</p>
>            <ref-list>
>                <title>Norsk Standard</title>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>            </ref-list>
>            <ref-list>
>                <title>Annen litteratur</title>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>            </ref-list>
>        </sec>
>
>
> or
>
>   <ref-list>
>       <title>Litteratur</title>
>       <p>For dokumenter som det er gjort normative referanser til i teksten,
se punkt 2 Normative referanser. </p>
>       <ref-list>
>           <title>Norsk Standard</title>
>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>       </ref-list>
>       <ref-list>
>           <title>Annen litteratur</title>
>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>       </ref-list>
>    </ref-list>
>
>
> If bLitteraturb  is the title of a peer to "Norsk Standardb and "Annen
litteraturb then perhaps:
>
>       <sec  sec-type='bibl'>
>            <title>...</title>
>            <ref-list>
>                <title>Litteratur</title>
>                <p>For dokumenter ...</p>
>            </ref-list>
>            <ref-list>
>                <title>Norsk Standard</title>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>            </ref-list>
>            <ref-list>
>                <title>Annen litteratur</title>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>            </ref-list>
>        </sec>
>
> Does that help?
>
> b Tommie
>
>
>
>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 9:35 AM, DorothC)e Stadler doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tommie,
>> Thanks for your answer on this, which I thought made sense when I read it
first. Now that Ibm trying to implement this logic however I find myself
with the challenge that there is no way to enter text in between references.
>> In our standards it often happens that the Bibliography is bsplitb into
functional sections, see this example:
>>
>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
>> Litteratur
>>
>> For dokumenter som det er gjort normative referanser til i teksten, se
punkt 2 Normative referanser.
>>
>> Norsk Standard
>>
>> NS 8405                      Norsk bygge- og anleggskontrakt
>>
>> NS-EN 536                  Veibyggingsmaskiner b Asfaltblandeanlegg b
Sikkerhetskrav
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Annen litteratur
>>
>> ICAO A14                    (International Civil Aviation Organization):
Annex 14 - Volume I - Aerodromes design and operations. Third edition. July
1999
>>
>> Statens vegvesen        HC%ndbok 025, Prosesskode 1 - Standard
arbeidsbeskrivelse for vegkontrakter. Hovedprosess 1-7. Vegdirektoratet. Oslo,
2007
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
>>
>> So how would I encode this with using <ref-list>? Should I then create a
total of three <ref-lists>, the first one without any references in them to
hold the first part, and then two more bchildb <ref-list> elements for the
Norsk Standard and Annex literature parts?
>>
>> I have to be honest, I donbt quite see the usefulness of using <ref-list>
directly rather than having a section with type bbiblb and having my
<ref-list> elements in there. Obviously since ISO (and presumably CEN) are
doing it this way too I would prefer to align, but donbt see how I can
accommodate cases like the aboveb& Unless it is possible to change NISO to
allow text and other elements between <ref> elements? Is there a reason why
this was prohibited in the first place?
>>
>> Thanks for your continued help, I really appreciate how fast this group
always responds!
>> Have a nice day.
>> DorothC)e
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> DorothC)e Stadler
>>
>> Rathenower Str. 38
>> 10559 Berlin
>> Tel: +49 1525 840 85 93
>> doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 27. Sep 2018, at 18:41, Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello DorothC)e b
>>>
>>> It will take this community some time to develop best practices.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that the most semantically specific markup available is
generally best. Since there is an element (<ref-list>) specific to your use
and it is available in the location you want to put the bibliography, I
suggest that you should use it.
>>>
>>> <sec sec-type=bbiblb> is available for those instances where there are
bibliographies in other locations in the document. For example, some very
large standards have bibliographies at the end of each major section/chapter,
and I have heard that there are some standards that have bibliographies in
other places in the body of the text.
>>>
>>> b Tommie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sep 27, 2018, at 12:34 PM, DorothC)e Stadler doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> I have a question about how to best encode the Bibliography as part of
the back matter.
>>>> To me, the most logical thing to do is use <sec> with
@sec-type=bbiblb. Now I see in the NISO documentation of <sec> that it
should be used as follows:
>>>> 	b" Within the back matter (<back>) to tag material that has not been
explicitly named as one of the other back matter components, that is, it is
not named as an annex (<app>), an acknowledgment (<ack>), a bibliography
(<ref-list>), etc.
>>>>
>>>> I am now confused. Should the bibliography always be encoded using
<ref-list>, as it is also currently done by ISO using the ISOSTS? If so, why
do we even have an @sec-type=bbiblb?
>>>> Any enlightenment would be much appreciated!
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> DorothC)e
>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>> DorothC)e Stadler
>>>>
>>>> Rathenower Str. 38
>>>> 10559 Berlin
>>>> Tel: +49 1525 840 85 93
>>>> doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
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