Re: [niso-sts] Encoding Bibliography

Subject: Re: [niso-sts] Encoding Bibliography
From: "B Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:12:24 -0000
Hi DorothC)e b

I wonbt even begin to address bwhy is it this wayb questions; there is a
lot of history behind the current model, some of which I know and some of
which I donbt know. Also, it doesnbt matter.

If you want to suggest a change, suggest a change.
https://groups.niso.org/apps/org/workgroup/sts-sc/add_comment.php?document_id
=18492


However, those are headings, not paragraphs. Perhaps they are titles of
sections, perhaps they are titles of reference lists; they are not paragraphs.
If you are going to request a change based on this example it should be a
change that allows the headings to be tagged as <title>, not <p>.

b Tommie


> On Oct 10, 2018, at 1:04 PM, DorothC)e Stadler doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Tommie,
> Well it helps in the sense that what I was doing initially (i.e. having a
<sec sec-type=bbiblb> with the reference lists inside) is your first
suggestion..
> However, this means that based on whether or not I want the references
grouped into separate topics (Litteratur=Bibliography, the others are just
group headings for the subsequent references), I will have to choose a
different encoding option. This then again means that my standards will not
all be encoded the same way and also that they are inconsistent with what ISO
does.
>
> If the NISO schema would allow to add other elements between <ref> inside a
<ref-list>, then I could just add the headings as <p>. So back to my question:
why is NISO so restrictive? Is there a reason we cannot allow more flexibility
inside a <ref-list> element?
> Or, from another angle: why does NISO not bforceb a <sec> element above
a <ref-list> (a bit like Gerrit described with his schematron rules)? This
would allow everyone to encode the Bibliography section consistently and be
able to easily choose to add as many <ref-list>s as required. I would also
find it more consistent that Bibliography is encoded the same, regardless of
location (you were mentioning sec-type=bbiblb should be used when
Bibliography is not in the Back matter)...
>
> Kind regards
> DorothC)e
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> DorothC)e Stadler
>
> Rathenower Str. 38
> 10559 Berlin
> Tel: +49 1525 840 85 93
> doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>> On 10. Oct 2018, at 17:09, B Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi DorothC)e b
>>
>> Based on your sample, I see two reasonable options:
>>
>> If bLitteraturb is the title of a structure that contains the
references below it, you might use:
>>
>>        <sec  sec-type='bibl'>
>>            <title>Litteratur</title>
>>            <p>For dokumenter ...</p>
>>            <ref-list>
>>                <title>Norsk Standard</title>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>            </ref-list>
>>            <ref-list>
>>                <title>Annen litteratur</title>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>            </ref-list>
>>        </sec>
>>
>>
>> or
>>
>>   <ref-list>
>>       <title>Litteratur</title>
>>       <p>For dokumenter som det er gjort normative referanser til i
teksten, se punkt 2 Normative referanser. </p>
>>       <ref-list>
>>           <title>Norsk Standard</title>
>>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>       </ref-list>
>>       <ref-list>
>>           <title>Annen litteratur</title>
>>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>           <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>       </ref-list>
>>    </ref-list>
>>
>>
>> If bLitteraturb  is the title of a peer to "Norsk Standardb and
"Annen litteraturb then perhaps:
>>
>>       <sec  sec-type='bibl'>
>>            <title>...</title>
>>            <ref-list>
>>                <title>Litteratur</title>
>>                <p>For dokumenter ...</p>
>>            </ref-list>
>>            <ref-list>
>>                <title>Norsk Standard</title>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>            </ref-list>
>>            <ref-list>
>>                <title>Annen litteratur</title>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>                <ref><mixed-citation>...</mixed-citation></ref>
>>            </ref-list>
>>        </sec>
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>> b Tommie
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 9:35 AM, DorothC)e Stadler doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Tommie,
>>> Thanks for your answer on this, which I thought made sense when I read it
first. Now that Ibm trying to implement this logic however I find myself
with the challenge that there is no way to enter text in between references.
>>> In our standards it often happens that the Bibliography is bsplitb
into functional sections, see this example:
>>>
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
>>> Litteratur
>>>
>>> For dokumenter som det er gjort normative referanser til i teksten, se
punkt 2 Normative referanser.
>>>
>>> Norsk Standard
>>>
>>> NS 8405                      Norsk bygge- og anleggskontrakt
>>>
>>> NS-EN 536                  Veibyggingsmaskiner b Asfaltblandeanlegg b
Sikkerhetskrav
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Annen litteratur
>>>
>>> ICAO A14                    (International Civil Aviation Organization):
Annex 14 - Volume I - Aerodromes design and operations. Third edition. July
1999
>>>
>>> Statens vegvesen        HC%ndbok 025, Prosesskode 1 - Standard
arbeidsbeskrivelse for vegkontrakter. Hovedprosess 1-7. Vegdirektoratet. Oslo,
2007
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
>>>
>>> So how would I encode this with using <ref-list>? Should I then create a
total of three <ref-lists>, the first one without any references in them to
hold the first part, and then two more bchildb <ref-list> elements for the
Norsk Standard and Annex literature parts?
>>>
>>> I have to be honest, I donbt quite see the usefulness of using
<ref-list> directly rather than having a section with type bbiblb and
having my <ref-list> elements in there. Obviously since ISO (and presumably
CEN) are doing it this way too I would prefer to align, but donbt see how I
can accommodate cases like the aboveb& Unless it is possible to change NISO
to allow text and other elements between <ref> elements? Is there a reason why
this was prohibited in the first place?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your continued help, I really appreciate how fast this group
always responds!
>>> Have a nice day.
>>> DorothC)e
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>> DorothC)e Stadler
>>>
>>> Rathenower Str. 38
>>> 10559 Berlin
>>> Tel: +49 1525 840 85 93
>>> doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 27. Sep 2018, at 18:41, Tommie Usdin btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello DorothC)e b
>>>>
>>>> It will take this community some time to develop best practices.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that the most semantically specific markup available is
generally best. Since there is an element (<ref-list>) specific to your use
and it is available in the location you want to put the bibliography, I
suggest that you should use it.
>>>>
>>>> <sec sec-type=bbiblb> is available for those instances where there
are bibliographies in other locations in the document. For example, some very
large standards have bibliographies at the end of each major section/chapter,
and I have heard that there are some standards that have bibliographies in
other places in the body of the text.
>>>>
>>>> b Tommie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 27, 2018, at 12:34 PM, DorothC)e Stadler doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
<niso-sts-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>> I have a question about how to best encode the Bibliography as part of
the back matter.
>>>>> To me, the most logical thing to do is use <sec> with
@sec-type=bbiblb. Now I see in the NISO documentation of <sec> that it
should be used as follows:
>>>>> 	b" Within the back matter (<back>) to tag material that has not been
explicitly named as one of the other back matter components, that is, it is
not named as an annex (<app>), an acknowledgment (<ack>), a bibliography
(<ref-list>), etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am now confused. Should the bibliography always be encoded using
<ref-list>, as it is also currently done by ISO using the ISOSTS? If so, why
do we even have an @sec-type=bbiblb?
>>>>> Any enlightenment would be much appreciated!
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> DorothC)e
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>> DorothC)e Stadler
>>>>>
>>>>> Rathenower Str. 38
>>>>> 10559 Berlin
>>>>> Tel: +49 1525 840 85 93
>>>>> doro@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ======================================================================
>> B. Tommie Usdin                        mailto:btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Mulberry Technologies, Inc.               https://www.mulberrytech.com
>> 17 West Jefferson Street                           Phone: 301/315-9631
>> Suite 207                                    Direct Line: 301/315-9634
>> Rockville, MD  20850                                 Fax: 301/315-8285
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mulberry Technologies: A Consultancy Specializing in XML and SGML
>> ======================================================================
>>
>
>

======================================================================
B. Tommie Usdin                        mailto:btusdin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Mulberry Technologies, Inc.               https://www.mulberrytech.com
17 West Jefferson Street                           Phone: 301/315-9631
Suite 207                                    Direct Line: 301/315-9634
Rockville, MD  20850                                 Fax: 301/315-8285
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mulberry Technologies: A Consultancy Specializing in XML and SGML
======================================================================

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