Re: [jats-list] Preferred pronouns for authors

["Jennifer Flint jen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <jats-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I agree that adding an attribute for gender would be much easier to process
systematically. Each author can absolutely choose to which gender they would
be identified in all such cases, but, the reality is that many languages use
female versions of a noun to identify a single female or group of females and
a masculine form of the noun to identify a group of all males or a mixed group
of authors, so a <contrib-group> with <contrib gender="female"> and <contrib
gender="male"> requires a different display than a <contrib-group> with only
<contrib gender="female"> children. The biological gender of the individuals
is irrelevant, but it is inaccurate to identify the group using the incorrect
form of the noun.

The difficulty with adding a plain text <role> to each <contrib> and
<contrib-group> is that it cannot be localized, so if a reader wants to view
the article metadata in French, it cannot be easily localized if the <role>
has been captured in English.

Jen

jflintcreative.com



On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, at 13:00, Randall, Laura (NIH/NLM/NCBI) [E]
laura.randall@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > I think it is a pity we have lengthy discussions about self-identified
gender and completely disregard biological gender as though it is some kind of
taboo

>

> (disclaimer: This comment is from me personally, representing only myself
and not my necessarily employer)

>

> I think itbs more a pity that webd chose to base how we address someone
strictly on their chromosomal makeup rather than how they self-identify. Ibm
not a linguist, but I would doubt that the languages basing articles on gender
are actually required to base it on biological gender determined by their
chromosomes.

>

> I see choosing to record biological gender over a self-identified gender is
dismissive of the struggles of individuals suffering from gender dysphoria. I
believe this kind of action is the source of many of the challenges faced by
an entire community. If you had a trans author with a chosen name, would you
require them to publish under their dead name? No, of course not. So why would
you force their biological sex to be part of how theybre identified in your
publication?

>

> Best,

> Laura

>

> ________________________

> Laura Randall (she/her)

>


> *From:* Pieter Lamers pieter.lamers@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<jats-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2020 2:13 AM
> *To:* jats-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [jats-list] Preferred pronouns for authors

>

> Hi Debbie,

> Thanks for pulling the minutes from a similar request. *Out of scope *is an
easy answer of course. It just means that we will need to continue to use a
workaround for storing information needed to get to an accurate presentation.

> I know grammar and gender is not easy. That's why I need a flag rather than
a spell-out field. I need to calculate plural, masc/fem dependent on the
'other' if there is more than one author, and forms in other languages than
the language the article was in.

> I think it is a pity we have lengthy discussions about self-identified
gender and completely disregard biological gender as though it is some kind of
taboo. But that's probably me being Dutch.


> Best
> Pieter

> On 13/12/2020 22:05, Debbie Lapeyre dalapeyre@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>>
>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2020, at 1:00 AM, Pieter Lamers pieter.lamers@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<jats-list-service@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> As a NoENL publisher active in humanities I would like to reiterate on the
fact that we would need <sex> (or @sex or @gender) just as much or even more
than <persPronoun>: in languages like German and French, a heading like
Author's address must be differentiated for authors who identify with or
simply are of female gender (and I think the same would go for English if we
were to record movies instead of articles, with the Actor/Actress
distinction).
>>> Therefore, if anybody feels the need to amend the data model towards the
inclusion of <persPronoun>, please also consider the simple linguistic reality
in other languages than English;  A point I've also made during my appearances
in JATS Con 2016 and 2019. Now we work around this problem with @content-type
= 'female'.
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>> (NoENL is of course Not Only English Language, but everybody in this
audience got that, right?)
>>> On 11/12/2020 17:02, Debbie Lapeyre dalapeyre@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>> The request for a @gender attribute was made on the JATS form
>> on the NISO site. Here is the JATS Standing Committee's reply:
>>
>> JATS Standing Committee Minutes
>>
>> Request Denied: Add contributor @gender attribute
>>
>> Two use cases were described as rationales for this request:
>>
>>     - To describe the gender of a contributor in order to construct
>>       grammatically correct descriptions of the contributor roles,
>>       for use in sentences (e.g., female: codirectrice and
>>       male: codirecteur in French).
>>
>>    -  To use this information to produce scientometric indicators
>>       based on authorbs gender.
>>
>> Recommendation
>>
>>     - Regarding the mechanics of making a grammatical sentence for
>>       production, we appreciate the requirement, but feel that JATS
>>       already contains a mechanism to do this: the <role>
>>       element. (See XML-tagged sample below.)
>>
>>    -  Regarding the scientometric request: Collection of such data is
>>       out of scope for JATS.
>>
>> XML Example
>>
>> <contrib>
>>   <name>
>>     <surname>Bastin</surname>
>>     <given-names>Georges L.</given-names>
>>   </name>
>>   <role>codirecteur</role>
>>   </contrib>
>>
>> <contrib>
>>   <name>
>>     <surname>St-Pierre</surname>
>>     <given-names>JosC)e</given-name>
>>   </name>
>> <role>codirectrice</role>
>> </contrib>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> And, it seems to me (Debbie Lapeyre) that gender (biological) is
>> a very complicated issue. Even for grammar purposes, this is complex.
>>
>> --Debbie Lapeyre
>>
>> ================================================================
>> Deborah A Lapeyre              mailto:dalapeyre@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Mulberry Technologies, Inc.      http://www.mulberrytech.com
>> 17 West Jefferson Street         Phone: 301-315-9631 (USA)
>> Suite 207                        Fax:   301-315-8385
>> Rockville, MD 20850
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mulberry Technologies: Consultancy for XML, XSLT, and Schematron
>> ================================================================
>>
> --
> Pieter Lamers
> John Benjamins Publishing Company
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